General Discussion: A Reason For Not Living In Scotland


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Double D
Double D avatar

3552 posts since 8/3/07

10 Sep 2014 22:33
Fuck this thread now, I'd be happy to say goodbye to all the jingoistic arseholes, just scared about all of our own jingoistic arseholes getting stuck in power eternally as a result.
burny
burny avatar

5788 posts since 25/5/06

10 Sep 2014 22:35
Mrtyn wrote: It's no wonder the Yes campaign has gained so much momentum. Try using facts and truth. If you can provide them ill change my mind.

Mr Salmond can tug on the emotions of his fellow countrymen but he has given few credible answers about the challenges – economic, social and international – which would face Scotland. His Panglossian pitch is that the Scots can have the best of all possible worlds: independence, the monarchy and the pound, and that a Scotland which retreats into a narrower nationalist identity will somehow be better equipped to prosper in a world of globalisation.

His argument contains glaring inconsistencies. A currency union demands a political union. The eurozone’s travails show us as much. Mark Carney, governor of the Bank of England, made clear again this week that political independence is incompatible with maintaining sterling as the currency of choice. Mr Salmond insists the English establishment is bluffing. This is no bluff. The currency uncertainty will blight every aspect of the Scottish economy, from commercial lending to mortgages. Without total clarity, every Scottish citizen is left exposed.

Mr Salmond claims that separation is the best guarantee of future prosperity. His calculations are based on much wishful thinking covering vital matters such as the future oil price and how much of the UK’s debt would be assumed by the Scots. He presumes that it serves no one’s interest to be unreasonable about the terms of divorce, but he underestimates the psychological shock. No one can predict the consequences.

Nor is it obvious why Scotland will gain early and automatic entry into the EU. Other European states with their own separatist movements – notably Spain – have little incentive to agree to a quick deal. The only certainty is uncertainty, at a high cost to Scotland and the UK. The shift of deposits and money out of Scotland this week is a harbinger.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/b5c48254-376e-11e4-bd0a-00144feabdc0.html?ftcamp=published_links%2Frss%2Fcomment%2Ffeed%2F%2Fproduct#axzz3CtyqRsk9

gaffer
gaffer avatar

492 posts since 13/4/05

10 Sep 2014 22:44

I would be voting yes if I was Scottish. Would rather take a leap into the unknown than continue with the status quo. Good luck to them. Could it lead to parts of England going for devolution?
burny
burny avatar

5788 posts since 25/5/06

10 Sep 2014 22:50
Laughing out loud http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29151798
FLG
FLG avatar

5858 posts since 21/5/04

10 Sep 2014 22:52
burny wrote: The shift of deposits and money out of Scotland this week is a harbinger.
Markets respond to uncertainty. Both sides of the debate are just as guilty for this, the SNPs unanswered questions and the three parties in Westminster showing absolute panic this week.
The value of Standard Life shares are UP 12% on what they were a month ago when the polls were showing a 22% lead for No.
Dreep
Dreep avatar

1207 posts since 29/7/08

10 Sep 2014 23:01

The FT is a mouthpiece for global capital. Always has been and always will be. The boys in London don't want to see Scotland leave.
burny
burny avatar

5788 posts since 25/5/06

10 Sep 2014 23:06
It's also been quoted in the majority of the yes campaigns materials.
Double D
Double D avatar

3552 posts since 8/3/07

11 Sep 2014 00:00
burny wrote: It's also been quoted in the majority of the yes campaigns materials.
Don't worry, at least one of us got the "Laughing out loud"
Mrtyn
Mrtyn avatar

969 posts since 30/1/14

11 Sep 2014 05:27
Burny, you've just done what every other no voter does. Deflect away from the lies and put the blame on Salmond and I'm no great fan of Salmond. While he is guilty of being optimistic to a fault at times, the Better Together camp blatantly lie. You can't use the pound. You would have to take the Euro if you join the EU, being one example that you yourself has made. There is now way you really believe this? It's just scaremongering.
CovOne
CovOne avatar

8652 posts since 17/8/04

11 Sep 2014 06:16
From a pure neutral you are doing the exact same on the other side of the fence Mrtyn.
burny
burny avatar

5788 posts since 25/5/06

11 Sep 2014 06:19
It's not scaremongering, Mrtyn. Like it says above, a currency union demands a political union. The way Salmond has set up the campaign has actually put paid to this. Even Mark Carney has come out and stated this to be true of his own will.

You can't go independent and have everything that you want, and expect us to carry on subsidising it. How anyone would vote yes without having proper answers to these questions is beyond me. And I say that as a neutral, whatever I do for a job isn't actually fuelling my opinions here. I'm a typographer and designer, I'm not a strategist.

You can't ignore what the news is reporting though. The banks, insurance company's etc do have contingency plans to move down here.

If you want to vote yes, it's fine with me. I'm not arguing with you, I respect your opinion. Bottom line is it would be bad for everyone if Scotland votes yes, in my opinion.
Mrtyn
Mrtyn avatar

969 posts since 30/1/14

11 Sep 2014 06:46
OK. When you say we can't use the pound you mean as part of a currency union? That is a possibility bit would be damaging for everyone if we don't. Do we have to join the Euro? There has been statements that HQ of certain organisations MAY move. They are few. You said most.

The fact that you think England subsidise us speaks volumes though. If you genuinely believe that then of course you will vote No.
burny
burny avatar

5788 posts since 25/5/06

11 Sep 2014 07:02
I didn't say England, did I? I said the UK.
shralp-lad
shralp-lad avatar

880 posts since 21/4/11

11 Sep 2014 09:02
It's really hilarious, the way that they've refused to discuss anything in definites themselves (no camp) and have saved everything for this week (mark carney et al) so as to make the news seem apocalyptic. Mark carney is the great ruiner of finances. The Pound has been QEd into submission and the BoEs low interest rates have allowed banks to continue on business as usual as they did before 2008. Get yourselfs a scot coin and sell oil, whisky and biscuits, not house bubbles and war machines!
EVERS
EVERS avatar

8580 posts since 2/7/06

11 Sep 2014 09:10
all way too sensible and reasoned in here. what's happened to fuk?? Shocked
padawan
padawan avatar

4049 posts since 27/6/03

11 Sep 2014 09:30
shralp-lad wrote: and biscuits

Laughing out loud

dont forget that shit toffee that gets stuck in your teef.
Mrtyn
Mrtyn avatar

969 posts since 30/1/14

11 Sep 2014 10:24
burny wrote: I didn't say England, did I? I said the UK.
burny wrote: I didn't say England, did I? I said the UK.

My apologies. The UK doesn't subsidise scotland. The figures are there for everyone to see. Can you please tell me why we will be forced to use the Euro?

JacktheHat
JacktheHat avatar

1655 posts since 26/2/10

posted 11 Sep 2014 10:38, edited 11 Sep 2014 10:38
As a new member state applying for EU membership, the use of the Euro is compulsory afaik.
andymakesglasses
andymakesglasses avatar

20186 posts since 26/1/06

posted 11 Sep 2014 10:39, edited 11 Sep 2014 10:39
hang_on_voltaire wrote: Royal Bank of Scotland & Lloyds Bank both saying they will move HQ to London if vote is yes.

The chairman of RBS sent a letter around their staff this morning stating that moving the headquarters to England would be a technicality (i.e. a brass plaque) with no impact on jobs or operations in Scotland. Lloyds' headquarters already are in London, but the brass plaque is in Edinburgh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7gRSOsbBA0

Regarding the EU, no-one can be certain of what will happen. The EU don't want to reveal their hand before the vote as it may be unnecessary (in the event of a No vote). There have been conflicting views from various people connected to the EU with some saying that Scotland's membership could be a transitional one rather than a new application (and therefore no opportunity for a veto and no need to join the Euro) while others say that Scotland would have to apply from outside the EU. In the latter scenario there are also conflicting views as to whether or not Scotland would have to adopt the Euro. What is clear is that no-one can say anything is "definite" at this stage.

This is quite a good article about some of the key questions.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/09/-sp-if-scotland-votes-for-independence-key-questions
Mrtyn
Mrtyn avatar

969 posts since 30/1/14

11 Sep 2014 10:51
I'm sorry but no new member state can be forced to take the Euro. This isn't some made up nonsense. 2 mins of googling will show this.