General Discussion: The Dead Celeb Thread


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Double D
Double D avatar

3552 posts since 8/3/07

11 Mar 2014 20:29
Noble Locks wrote:
stoney wrote: my immediate thought when i heard the news was suicide.
Whys that then? He had an amazing life and lived every minute of what he was doing.
Topped himself because he didnt get 8 hours sleep and eat his veggies.
YLAup
YLAup avatar

5903 posts since 5/9/11

11 Mar 2014 21:07
Laughing out loud
gawkrodger
gawkrodger avatar

7691 posts since 4/11/08

11 Mar 2014 23:10
think Galloway is an utter prick, but this is pretty decent

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/11/bob-crow-workers-rmt-leader

and this is from the Daily Mash is great!

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/oh-shit-say-tube-drivers-2014031184499
Hello World
Hello World avatar

12174 posts since 7/3/05

12 Mar 2014 08:56
He was very good at his job no doubt.
Trystero
Trystero avatar

1636 posts since 1/8/07

posted 12 Mar 2014 10:46, edited 12 Mar 2014 10:46
stoney wrote: Maybe it all got too much for him, getting shit all round, paxman etc.


Motto of the RMT might as well have been the same as his team's ("No one likes us, we don't care") - he’s hardly going to do himself in over a Newsnight interview or tiff with Boris Laughing out loud

Double D wrote: tube driving monkeys
Double D wrote: bus wankers

What is it you do for a living then?

Sounds to me like you just resent any working class people earning a decent salary because they're part of a strong union. While tube drivers might be on good money, 'bus wankers' start on around 20K which is hardly astronical for a London wage.

Are teachers and registered nurses more justified in going on strike over pay/pensions/possible redundancies just because they're predominantly middle class professions?
MasterBlaster
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884 posts since 7/4/12

14 Mar 2014 08:21
Tony Benn. Lefties are dropping like flies this year.
figurine
figurine avatar

6136 posts since 14/5/07

14 Mar 2014 09:37
Trystero wrote: Are teachers and registered nurses more justified in going on strike over pay/pensions/possible redundancies just because they're predominantly middle class professions?
Not because they are more middle class professions, but it hardly makes sense for a tube driver to be earning 50k+, while the avarage classroom teacher in Inner London is earning less than 40k. This is nothing to do with class, it's simply that tube drivers have the ability to cause major disruption when they strike and take advantage of this to further inflate their salaries. If teachers strike it doesn't have the same effect.
Trystero
Trystero avatar

1636 posts since 1/8/07

14 Mar 2014 12:57
figurine wrote: it hardly makes sense for a tube driver to be earning 50k+, while the avarage classroom teacher in Inner London is earning less than 40k. This is nothing to do with class, it's simply that tube drivers have the ability to cause major disruption when they strike and take advantage of this to further inflate their salaries. If teachers strike it doesn't have the same effect.

The recent tube strikes had nothing to do with tube drivers trying to inflate their salaries, despite what the Daily Mail might have you believe. They were an attempt to prevent the job losses that would have resulted from Boris deciding to close all of the ticket offices that he had previously pledged to protect.

Imo the sort of discourse that frames tube drivers as lazy and greedy and presents teachers and nurses and the like as hard-working and put-upon, and thus more deserving of their pay, has everything to do with class - which is precisely why so many people would prefer to ignore it.

The level of inconvenience caused by the tube strikes was nowhere near as bad as the media made out. Lots of lines were still running a good service and buses, DLR and the Overground all continued to operate as normal. Most of those moaning about Bob Crowe 'holding the capital to ransom' were just too lazy to walk or cycle to work or get up an hour earlier to take an alternate form of transport. Same sort of people who take the day off work when it's snowing.

Imo that's a fairly minor amount of disruption compared to schools closing when teachers go on strike – since there are no viable alternatives at all in that scenario. Even during the tube strikes most people got around ok or were able to work from home, so it didn't cause the same sort of knock-on effect that schools closing would when parents might be forced to take time off because they can't arrange or afford childcare.

If teachers think they're so hard done by salary wise then they should see what it's like in academia. Until my latest contract finished I was working as a postdoctoral research assistant at a London university. Short term contract, zero job security, poorly paid, ridiculously competitive. That involved undertaking teaching responsibilities too. I was on similar money to a bus driver – but I wouldn't begrudge them a pay rise if they were to go on strike. It's a shame that everything in this country seems to be a race to the bottom now. Seriously considering emigrating in a few years time.

Anyway, R.I.P. Tony Benn - a great, principled man, proper socialist and a true gentleman. Very sad to see him go.
Double D
Double D avatar

3552 posts since 8/3/07

14 Mar 2014 13:29
Where the fuck are all these middle class nurses? I'll give you teachers but nursing is definitely not a middle class profession.

I think a more reasonable comparison would be hospital porter vs. bus/tube driver, both public sector, working class jobs, both require zero education/skills; yet a massive pay difference - and portering isn't an easy fucking job.
figurine
figurine avatar

6136 posts since 14/5/07

14 Mar 2014 13:39
If teaching were paid higher it would attract a better calibre of teachers, increasing the educational attainment of the country. Higher paid train drivers will not benefit anyone else aside from train drivers. This has fuck all to do with class.
Rez
Rez avatar

8945 posts since 5/4/09

14 Mar 2014 13:40
I had a better time on my commute while the tubes were striking than I ever had before Laughing out loud
RickRude
RickRude avatar

4139 posts since 13/1/12

posted 14 Mar 2014 13:53, edited 14 Mar 2014 13:53
The recent tube strikes had nothing to do with tube drivers trying to inflate their salaries, despite what the Daily Mail might have you believe. They were an attempt to prevent the job losses that would have resulted from Boris deciding to close all of the ticket offices that he had previously pledged to protect.

This
Double D
Double D avatar

3552 posts since 8/3/07

14 Mar 2014 13:57
Only prolonging the inevitable. Underground should be more like NYC's imo, basically zero staff, $2.25 trips to anywhere you like, hilariously unsecure gates, 24 hour operation… it's total anarchy but when it's that cheap noone gives a shit, and the operational costs are probably tiny compared to the underground.
DuffMan
DuffMan avatar

14389 posts since 21/2/07

posted 14 Mar 2014 14:00, edited 14 Mar 2014 14:00
So you want to make the tube much worse, just because it would be cheaper? The NY metro is anarchy which isn't actually fun when you have to commute etc

Salaries are not some zero sum game, front line service workers should get paid more, tube drivers don't need to be paid less.
collizhun
collizhun avatar

3880 posts since 19/10/06

14 Mar 2014 14:07
If gates were open more money would lost than the cost of employing a couple of staff to ensure they're operational.

Plus the need of people to support disabled passengers. Saw a station worker helping a disabled woman from Holborn Piccadilly Line platform to street level. There are two sets of stairs prior to reaching escalators and would be a terrible experience if they had not been there. They cornered one side of the stairwell of so she could get up there without being crushed by the 100s of commuters rushing out.

Not to mention the number of tourists who need help topping up, finding their way to platforms and connections.
Double D
Double D avatar

3552 posts since 8/3/07

posted 14 Mar 2014 14:08, edited 14 Mar 2014 14:08
DuffMan wrote: So you want to make the tube much worse, just because it would be cheaper? The NY metro is anarchy
I beg to differ on the 'much worse' part, it can be a tad unpunctual but I'll take that when I can get from JFK to Grand Central (via a bus to Queens) for a couple of bucks; or stumble out of a bar in Brooklyn at 3am and be in uptown half an hour later, without parting with 30 quid for a dodgy Asian cab ride.
Double D
Double D avatar

3552 posts since 8/3/07

14 Mar 2014 14:13
collizhun wrote: If gates were open more money would lost than the cost of employing a couple of staff to ensure they're operational.
It's not that they aren't operational, it's more that most of them seem to have emergency gates next to them that New Yorkers don't give a fuck about using Laughing out loud
Trystero
Trystero avatar

1636 posts since 1/8/07

14 Mar 2014 14:27
Double D wrote: Where the fuck are all these middle class nurses? I'll give you teachers but nursing is definitely not a middle class profession..

Have you ever worked in the NHS? I think you'd be surprised.

All new nurses now have had to hold a degree-level qualification to enter the profession so it's only going to become increasingly more middle class in the future.

figurine wrote: If teaching were paid higher it would attract a better calibre of teachers, increasing the educational attainment of the country. Higher paid train drivers will not benefit anyone else aside from train drivers. This has fuck all to do with class.

Yeah because paying high salaries obviously helps to attract a much better calibre of person. Just look at all those fine upstanding, city bankers who've done so much for the finances of the country…

Rez wrote: I had a better time on my commute while the tubes were striking than I ever had before Laughing out loud

same for me actually, much quieter than usual, even got a seat on a Northern line Laughing out loud
RickRude
RickRude avatar

4139 posts since 13/1/12

14 Mar 2014 14:33
Double D do you even live in UK
figurine
figurine avatar

6136 posts since 14/5/07

14 Mar 2014 14:36
Having a degree does not mean you are middle class, surely someone in academia would understand that.

Calibre maybe isn't the best word, but generally a lot of people who would make excellent teachers are put off because of the low salary and poor work-life balance. Instead you end up with people going into teaching after scraping a 2.2 and deciding on doing a PGCE cos they can't find a job anywhere else. A mate of mine is currently training to be a maths/science teacher, he got a third in his engineering degree. If teaching was a better paid career he wouldn't have a chance of getting into an initial teacher education course, there would be more intelligent and capable people applying for it instead.