General Discussion: Shego's Employment/Work Thread!


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swiftus
swiftus avatar

1368 posts since 1/7/09

7 Apr 2021 14:07
Hanto wrote: Anyone here been in a job 5 + years and then changed?

May have an opp to move to a new company/competitor in the same sector, but have never changed job unless the previous ended, so have not actively looked for work. An old colleague has recommended they speak to me, and they have had all the guys in my team approach them for roles at some point in the recent past, so I guess it is flattering in that sense.

The pay would be more and the company is going places, but the commute into London (2.5-3hrs each way 2/3 times a week), compared with driving currently to work (45 mins each way), would more than double my journey time, and with a new baby etc. I am not sure where my head is at. Equally I am 29 so have a long career ahead!

Would appreciate if people have experience or adivce of what to think about/ask when speaking to them. Have an informal chat potentially happening later this week.

That commute would be a killer. I was commuting from east to west London for about a year and a bit, train/tube/train and it killed me. What kind of hours do you work? Is there scope to WFH?

With the new baby situation, it sounds very tough (without knowing your exact situation). What does your missus think of it?
diederik
diederik avatar

3278 posts since 16/8/11

7 Apr 2021 14:14
5-6 hours commute (with a baby) is madness

I had a 3.5h commute (both ways) before Covid hit and now my company decided to stay as a remote company, which is great - could not imagine having this shit commute after working from home for a year.
RickRude
RickRude avatar

3798 posts since 13/1/12

7 Apr 2021 14:22
Hanto dont do it!

Had a similar situation - felt like topping myself after 6 months.

I know your in East Sussex as well right? Trains in the evening are murder!
Crackajack
Crackajack avatar

7852 posts since 21/4/05

7 Apr 2021 14:22
How much more Vis and Real McCoys can you get though?

But seriously, I would be thinking about chances of getting a similar more local job if you went for it and it didn't work out.

Could be stuck commuting in for a long time and generally be pretty unhappy. No guarantee WFH will continue as they promise either. Would need to be an increase plus sound out being fully remote by default… Could mean salary is less as no London allowance tho.
Hanto
Hanto avatar

2761 posts since 30/11/09

7 Apr 2021 14:39
RickRude wrote: Hanto dont do it!

Had a similar situation - felt like topping myself after 6 months.

I know your in East Sussex as well right? Trains in the evening are murder!

The commute is the main thing, and always will be. If it was local (1hr or less), it would be far less of an issue. I am Chichester Rick, so yeah 20 mins to station, then 2hrs on Southern Rail and then the Northern Line, to Old Street. My current company, if I have to go to London, is an office by the Shard so is no distance to travel at all. Plus my commute at the moment to my actual office is driving through the South Downs, so is pretty idealic, and never really deviates in terms of how long it takes.

I guess the key thing is how many people here have changed job for money and found it rewarding, and how many have not and found their life balance more rewarding.

As I say, the role is likely to be 3 days in London, at most, a week, but the pay increase is 57%.

I could possibly get a similar job locally, but not working in the same sector, software wise. It's a part of SaaS that genuinely interests me, but the other company has just had a huge round of funding and feels like it is going places.

Crackajack wrote: How much more Vis and Real McCoys can you get though?

But seriously, I would be thinking about chances of getting a similar more local job if you went for it and it didn't work out.

Could be stuck commuting in for a long time and generally be pretty unhappy. No guarantee WFH will continue as they promise either. Would need to be an increase plus sound out being fully remote by default… Could mean salary is less as no London allowance tho.

The other issue is, naturally, being nearer the RMC flagship, Clutch Cafe, any Vis stockist, and of course, pretentious coffee shops!

swiftus wrote: That commute would be a killer. I was commuting from east to west London for about a year and a bit, train/tube/train and it killed me. What kind of hours do you work? Is there scope to WFH?

With the new baby situation, it sounds very tough (without knowing your exact situation). What does your missus think of it?

She is supporting in whatever I want to do, but is certainly mindful of my mental health at the moment. Currently on an increased dosage of Sertraline and taking CBT again because of the baby! However, what she did say is that it could be worth sounding out to see what the whole thing looks like. Even if the fit is not right now, we think it could be good to entertain at least, just to show willing at this stage, as things may never get better where I am currently.

The irony is I only had to do 6 months of commuting to London before (Farnham to Farringdon), to know I wouldn't like it. But that was nearly 7 years ago. I may see if I can factor in the commuting time into the working day itself, so if I am online, whilst on the train, it doesn't consitute just doing extra work, but is actually part of the day.

The pros are the earning potential with a company moving in a solid direction and professional/personal development.

The con is the commute and strain from that.
RickRude
RickRude avatar

3798 posts since 13/1/12

7 Apr 2021 14:48
Trust me - your work life balance is far more important. Have you ever worked on a Southwest train - it’s impossible. After a long day at the office as well. Delays galore and you’ll be paying more in travel. Plus you need to put value on your time and it will be 6 hours + a day which could be spent with your family. I’m in the boat where if my company don’t offer remote working full time I will resign. I was doing 3 days a week commute and having to sometimes get an air bnb as was too knackered to do commute etc. The train in to London isn’t that bad - it’s the journeys home. Maybe ask if you can alternate times and days that suit you if you are dead set on it. Getting in a bit earlier so you can leave earlier and avoid rush hour?
Hanto
Hanto avatar

2761 posts since 30/11/09

7 Apr 2021 14:52
That would be the plan. If I can pick the days, then it would also be a benefit. Yeah Southern is not ideal to work on. I can always get a seat on the way; not necessarily the way back until I've left East Croydon!

As someone who is not great with change and who like structure, it has thrown up a lot of things. I am definitely not a 'go getter' and career person. But I do know that I am not going to spend my life at my current company and would kick myself if I felt in years to come I had not had the courage to take a leap of faith.
Razorlight123
Razorlight123 avatar

4800 posts since 13/1/10

posted 7 Apr 2021 14:57, edited 7 Apr 2021 14:57
That earning potential and possible career progression is certainly not to be dismissed, 57% increase would be great also.

But as others have said, it's whether it is sustainable, mentally.

I've not worked in London for 4+ years now, and opted for a job locally, 20 mins by car. I used to travel from Hertfordshire to Central London. Although my journey was relatively short compared to yours (1hr+), looking back, it was still stressful, particularly when carriages were overfilled and hit by unexpected delays, although the world after Corona might change this?!

I've always said to myself that I would only work in London again if I was offered a very high salary - But, I'm not at a point that I'm considering other factors such as family and such a long commute…

It is a difficult one man. But if we hold everything constant, and look at the role as you stated, such an opportunity for professional development and networking is invaluable sometimes…
generic_guy
generic_guy avatar

9841 posts since 16/9/02

7 Apr 2021 15:12
You can get used to a long commute but it would be a terrible idea.
You would basically be missing out on around half of your child's life as you'll be leaving before they're awake (eventually!) and getting back after they're in bed.

The only way I would consider it would be if you were planning to move closer to the job once you've been there a few months.

I did 90 minutes drive each way for a couple of years and can't believe I stuck with it was amazing looking back.
The difference to my quality of life moving to somewhere 20 minutes away was huge (and WFH is even better obviously).
illwill
illwill avatar

4117 posts since 17/5/04

7 Apr 2021 15:12
You are bonkers to even be entertaining that commute.

It's not feasible unless the money is enough to house you in town midweek which I'm not sure your partner would appreciate.
Rez
Rez avatar

8543 posts since 5/4/09

7 Apr 2021 15:34
I actually miss my 40 minute cycle to work a lot. I Even kind of miss the equivalent journey on the tube in terms of decompression time/time to read a book and listen to an album).

Spending more than a couple of hours commuting a day seems so alien to me, maybe if you're already used to it the extra time isn't that bad though?

Can't wrap my head around it!
Razorlight123
Razorlight123 avatar

4800 posts since 13/1/10

posted 7 Apr 2021 16:09, edited 7 Apr 2021 16:09
Time goes so quickly on a tube journey in my eyes.

One of the things I miss about the commute to London was during the summer months, I used to walk from Kings Cross to Baker Street - was such a nice walk man. Everyone just seemed chill.

Plus constantly smashing my daily walk counter Smiling

But putting nostalgia to the side, the overall commute and the work-life balance wasn't all that.
swede
swede avatar

9501 posts since 21/3/09

7 Apr 2021 16:24
illwill wrote: You are bonkers to even be entertaining that commute.

100%. move, leave it or insist only 1-2 days in the office a week
crutch
crutch avatar

486 posts since 22/11/12

7 Apr 2021 16:55
Don’t do the commute -having a kid you now have such a big new thing in your life that you will want to dedicate time to, you’ll really resent the commuting time as time being away from your family
Hanto
Hanto avatar

2761 posts since 30/11/09

7 Apr 2021 17:27
Thanks all. Would I be a prick to use it as leverage at my current job. If not, any suggestions on how to go about it.
YLAup
YLAup avatar

5624 posts since 5/9/11

7 Apr 2021 17:51
1 hour there, and 1hr 20 back was enough for me after 4 months. 1 rickety train per hour too.
generic_guy
generic_guy avatar

9841 posts since 16/9/02

7 Apr 2021 18:58
It's only leverage if you are happy to go for it, big risk mentioning it if you don't want to take it.

That said if you think you're worth more then tell them.
Prepare something to say what you want and why you deserve it, what value you bring to the business etc.
cutandpaste
cutandpaste avatar

602 posts since 11/6/10

7 Apr 2021 21:16
What is the risk of mentioning it? They can’t expect him to work there forever, and can’t fire him for getting a job offer and mentioning it and not taking it.

Is the job offer overpaying for your skills/in part due to location etc. or the going market rate?

If you left your current company, what salary would they need to offer to replace you with someone who has like for like skills? If they replaced you, would they need someone with your skills or could they hire someone more junior to grow into your role?

How quickly could they hire a replacement in the current market?

Are you working on any projects which could be impacted by you leaving prematurely?

Just a few things off the top of my head which might help you consider how much leverage you have.
snaye
snaye avatar

10886 posts since 24/10/02

7 Apr 2021 22:48
It's all about how you approach it with the current employer. If you are going to use the pay me this or I leave bluff then be prepared for them to call it, and you fucking off or staying put with the consequences of your actions.

Might sound daft but if you are going to use it as leverage make sure you do actually have a confirmed offer in writing or it could backfire in a major way.

If your intentions are to get a nice bump, then you need to do some homework. Market value is one metric to bring up but also be mindful that some orgs pay way over what market rates are for specialised skills with shortage (start ups an example) to attract top talent. This does depend on role though. More established orgs won't have this pay structure and likely hood is you could be asking for more than your boss and that will get you laughed out the room.

One way to go about it is get a specific number in mind that you would be happy with. Get a meeting with your manager/boss/powers that be and be honest about the new opp/approach and explain your intention is to remain but would respectfully like a salary review. Explain you are not expecting the 50% hike but feel based on …….. past performance/achievements/market rates etc…..make sure you have a good rehearsed response for your reason why and DON'T make it specifically about money/market rates.

They will typically be thinking 'ok whats the figure' you say what you wan't and then If you are valued and your are not asking for ridic hike that breaks structure your boss should go fight for this on your behalf (unless he can sign off).

Other approach would be to get the offer in hand and go in with a more assertive approach but that's a trickier game, you still need to act loyal and say your really torn and it can work in your favour. Be arrogant and it can massively backfire. So many things to consider, company culture, salary structure, role you have, past and current performance all factor in.

PM if you want anymore help I have negotiated salary rise for others and myself successfully many times.

Anto
Anto avatar

3961 posts since 19/1/12

7 Apr 2021 23:42
That commute simply isn't feasible, 2.5\3 hrs when everything works fine, which could be even more if something goes wrong, is pure madness imo.

With a baby and what you said about your mental health, plus your past commuting experience (attitude towards it can only get worse with time\age imo) I wouldn't personally consider that offer.

I very much agree with what Snaye said; play it fairly and smartly and try to get a rise at your current company, 57% is a huge increase (at least for Italian standards) but you could easily get something satisfactory money wise without having to embark on such a long commute.

Once you get that, hopefully, if you really want to change sector\job, start looking actively for something more local or with full WFH mode