General Discussion: EURO 2020


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Doogan
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1040 posts since 13/4/14

11 Jul 2021 22:29
^Who would you get? Can't think of anyone better for England.
JustinCredible
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2695 posts since 11/6/08

11 Jul 2021 22:38
^ not about who you get, it's about picking your best 11 and asking to opposition to work out how you beat you rather than putting 8 men behind the ball every game and hoping to get lucky with substitutions in the last 20 - 30 mins.

Get away with it against lesser sides but with the embarrasment of riches of offensite players we have sat on the bench every game (Grealish literally our most creative player and sat on the sidelines).

Bringing Rashford and Sancho on with a couple of minutes of extra time, barely getting a touch of the ball, then expecting them to slot a peno home in the biggest game of their lives is insanity - if you've grafted 120 mins then step up and take a penalty and miss then no problemo - you gave your all and got us to the lottery that is penalties. If you've been on the pitch 2 mins with the sole intention of taking a penatly then the weight on your shoulders is collosal.

Southgate has played 6/7/8 defensive players every game and fluked his way to the final then bottled it with his boring, safe brand of football. Play your best 11 every game and make the opposition work out how to live with you - even if you lose then no regrets.
smith
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11414 posts since 5/5/04

11 Jul 2021 22:52
Giving it a go with some flair in midfield and lose 2 or 3 nil to the team of the tournament wouldn't have hurt as much as that did. All we did tonight was play to delay losing and then did it in spectacular fashion by sending a 19 year old up with the weight of a nation on his shoulders.

Unforgivable that. Southgate out.
Doogan
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1040 posts since 13/4/14

11 Jul 2021 23:39
Agree with that. I thought England started very well and looked solid in the first half. Second half was a 'mare and England were far too deep. England looked better again once Chiesa and Insigne went off but couldn't get a decent chance.

The gamble with Rashford and Sancho didn't pay off.
fudge.dredd
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1698 posts since 15/12/12

12 Jul 2021 00:08
Doogan wrote: Agree with that. I thought England started very well and looked solid in the first half. Second half was a 'mare and England were far too deep. England looked better again once Chiesa and Insigne went off but couldn't get a decent chance.

The gamble with Rashford and Sancho didn't pay off.

They were defending from the moment they scored.

One shot on target in 120 mins. Zero touches from Kane in Italy’s box and all of them going down like a sack or spuds at every opportunity.

Was very embarrassing to watch.
bertoni
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1486 posts since 29/9/11

12 Jul 2021 04:52
Same old mistake of protecting a one goal lead. We looked so much better when playing on the front foot.
Mr.X.
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3121 posts since 23/6/13

12 Jul 2021 06:19
Cheillini shirt pull on Saka Laughing out loud
Razorlight123
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4996 posts since 13/1/10

posted 12 Jul 2021 08:04, edited 12 Jul 2021 08:04
Southgate thought he was Prime Mourinho vs Prime Barcelona. That defensive setup to counter-attack was atrocious, particularly given the vast quality players you have on your bench.

Allowing Saka to take the 5th pen given its significance was such a ridiculous decision - given that Southgate has gone through this himself. If it had been decided previously, someone should have stepped up and aborted mission with their approach (Easy to say in hindsight).

Saka, 19yrs old has never taken a senior penalty in his life…

Mancini deserves all the accoldades saw England's approach halftime with Shaw and Walker having bundles of fun in the first 30 mins and completely changed it. Chiellini basically moved from CB to out wide, nullifying England's only Plan; wing play.



swiftus
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1514 posts since 1/7/09

posted 12 Jul 2021 09:21, edited 12 Jul 2021 09:21
So who actually decides the penalty takers? Is it all pre-determined? Do the players step up or does Southgate choose?

I always thought it was determined at the time, with the players volunteering.

Penalties are a complete mental game. Surely it's better seeing who is feeling confident and 'in the moment' rather than have it pre-determined? If a player has had a complete shitshow of a game (in general, not applying this to the England game), why would you force them to take a penalty at the end of it?
Hanto
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3163 posts since 30/11/09

posted 12 Jul 2021 10:01, edited 12 Jul 2021 10:01
I didn't really want to weigh in as I was in both camps being British/Italian, but do agree that it just came down to nerve and composure, as is the case with pens, and the pressure was massive. Regardless of my pedigree, I would struggle to cope with that, knowing that your efforts will be re-run/talked about for decades to come, regardless of whether you played well or badly.

To your point swiftus, I'm not sure. Crouch was saying on his podcast that Germany, in the past, have not only picked the players, they have also told them where to shoot, so there is no mid-run up change.
Razorlight123
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4996 posts since 13/1/10

posted 12 Jul 2021 10:21, edited 12 Jul 2021 10:21
swiftus wrote: So who actually decides the penalty takers? Is it all pre-determined? Do the players step up or does Southgate choose?

I always thought it was determined at the time, with the players volunteering.

Penalties are a complete mental game. Surely it's better seeing who is feeling confident and 'in the moment' rather than have it pre-determined? If a player has had a complete shitshow of a game (in general, not applying this to the England game), why would you force them to take a penalty at the end of it?

Southgate confirmed he picked the penalty takers due to training, and takes full responsibility.

Great leadership, but there were so many technically experienced players available who could have taken a pen (Sterling, Grealish, Shaw, Stones), to leave the final crucial pen to a 19yr old - who has never taken one in his senior career baffles me.

My only reasonable explanation is that 5th penalty is typically always a crucial penalty; which defines whether you win or lose.

I think the mindset was that they let Saka take the final penalty to get the headlines for England winning, which would have had such a significant impact, but unfortunately the it went extremely left



I agree with Hanto, I personally wouldn't want to be in any of their shoes - Taking a pen in small local tournaments is nerve-wracking enough!
fudge.dredd
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1698 posts since 15/12/12

12 Jul 2021 10:35
Southgate had an agenda and it was all nicely laid out.

Rashford, Sancho, Saka and Sterling win the Euros for England. He could see the ‘diversity’ headlines already.

That’s what you get for putting politics into footy.

Razorlight123
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4996 posts since 13/1/10

12 Jul 2021 10:37
Literally just updated my post to say this…

I think that's what he wanted, but it went extremely left.
fudge.dredd
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1698 posts since 15/12/12

12 Jul 2021 10:42
See normally I’d get ripped on here for saying that but it’s so obvious. He talked about it pre-match. They had that rainbow car to bring the ball out, all the advertising… too much.

And the way he used Grealish and dumped him when he felt he wouldn’t need him again…
Razorlight123
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4996 posts since 13/1/10

12 Jul 2021 10:46
lol, I don't know about all that…

It is just a skeptical pen choice - and the kid is hardly going to say no

https://twitter.com/Limpar33/status/1414402561352904713?s=20
JustinCredible
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2695 posts since 11/6/08

12 Jul 2021 10:53
Forget penalties, there is nothing you can do to prepare yourself for the pressure so nobody can dig out anyone who had the balls to step up and take one.

The far greater disappointment and regret that will live with Southgate forever is knowing he didn't have the bottle to approach the final positively - instead of working out how to nullify Italy he should have played his best players and asked Italy to work out how to nullify our attacking threat rather than the other way around. Cowardly, negative football and we got exactly what we deserved. If Grealish/Foden were Italian do we think they'd be sat on the bench for the whole tournament? Of course not, because Italy / Mancini has the balls to put his game changers on the pitch and have faith in his defence to cope with the counter attacks.

The second half was atrocious, we barely touched the ball and when they equalised, if anyone was going to go on and win it in normal / extra time it was only going to be Italy.
Razorlight123
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4996 posts since 13/1/10

posted 12 Jul 2021 10:55, edited 12 Jul 2021 10:55
I'm unsure I agree with that fully - England rode the storm to get to penalties from there on it is a clean slate; if you won no-one cares how the previous 120 mins panned out.

And also, that's the thing, it wasn't about bottle - the penalties were pre-determined by Southgate, not a matter of someone choosing.

It's a difficult situation but he failed to apply his own penalty experience - pens in these situations is
20% Technique in training
40% Confidence
40% Experience.

Saka was told "You're 5th" he's not exactly going to say, nah I can't do this gaffa…
fudge.dredd
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1698 posts since 15/12/12

posted 12 Jul 2021 11:13, edited 12 Jul 2021 11:13
If you watch the video there’s a huge gulp from him. He didn’t want it and fair play to him, he’s young and inexperienced.

But Shaw, Jelly leg Sterling, Grealish, Stones could all have been picked first.

Sterling deffo went missing when it came to looking for takers. If you buy that crap that it was all down to ‘training’ then I’ve got a bridge to sell you. Laughing out loud
smith
smith avatar

11414 posts since 5/5/04

12 Jul 2021 11:31
fudge.dredd wrote: See normally I’d get ripped on here for saying that but it’s so obvious. He talked about it pre-match. They had that rainbow car to bring the ball out, all the advertising… too much.

And the way he used Grealish and dumped him when he felt he wouldn’t need him again…

It could also be a little bit of Southgate being constantly asked by the media why he omits Sancho, BEllingham, Grealish, Foden from the starting 11 so much and wanted Saka to be the hero for him.
Rez
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8704 posts since 5/4/09

12 Jul 2021 11:40
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-57803161

grim