General Discussion: Politics thread


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YLAup
YLAup avatar

5694 posts since 5/9/11

31 Mar 2021 08:11
Laughing out loud
misled
misled avatar

4403 posts since 3/1/02

posted 31 Mar 2021 08:15, edited 31 Mar 2021 08:15
MerciBeau wrote: Post Sarah Everett vigil we could have had an policy proposal to make all sexual offences immediately put perverts on a list - instead it was ‘Yes All Men’.

I'm sorry but this is so wrong. It wasn't 'Yes All Men' it was a lot of people saying 'Not All Men' in an attempt to make excuses and deny the problem. also, "put perverts on a list" is straight out of a Daily Mail headline. That won't prevent anything, or increase conviction. Have a read of this thread to see what the courts are up against after many years of underfunding.



Like Inverse says maybe leave this one to the people that are actually having to deal with this.
R
R avatar

13291 posts since 17/5/03

31 Mar 2021 08:49
I do agree with MB's notion of social media clout and hate this perma offended state people feel the need to be in to show their empathy. this is taking nothing away from the SE case, which was horrific.

you say leave it to the people that are actually having to deal with it and I 100% agree. the very few occasions I look at social media, it's full of self loathing men and dare I say, white guilt. these, in my opinion, should also not be part of a progressive society.
swiftus
swiftus avatar

1499 posts since 1/7/09

31 Mar 2021 09:10
R wrote: you say leave it to the people that are actually having to deal with it and I 100% agree. the very few occasions I look at social media, it's full of self loathing men and dare I say, white guilt. these, in my opinion, should also not be part of a progressive society.

Prob one of the few things I agree with you on. There's a lot of cognitive dissonance between people's words and their actions. Until actual reform is made, nothing will change. No point white people feeling 'guilty' and needing to express this without these same white people doing something about it. And I'm not taking your average white person on the street who's trying to do the best for their family, I'm talking about the white people of power (e.g. leaders in business, politics, etc.).

But then trying to convince someone to cede their power for the common good seems damn near impossible…
deuce
deuce avatar

14044 posts since 21/1/08

31 Mar 2021 09:46
YLAup wrote: Your week off or summat Rez? If it's not, have you tried taking one?
Laughing out loud
Rez out here trying to right all of the worlds wrongs.

You ever thought about going into politics to make a real difference, or is shout at divs wearing kimonos on a fashion forum the extent you’re willing to go?
R
R avatar

13291 posts since 17/5/03

posted 31 Mar 2021 10:04, edited 31 Mar 2021 10:04
deuce wrote:
YLAup wrote: Your week off or summat Rez? If it's not, have you tried taking one?
Laughing out loud
Rez out here trying to right all of the worlds wrongs.

You ever thought about going into politics to make a real difference, or is shout at divs wearing kimonos on a fashion forum the extent you’re willing to go?

I also share this view. People thinking they're activists with biased retweets, believing that everyone MUST agree with them. Really don't understand this dream that a labour government, particularly a relatively far left one, solves all national and international issues and will result in utopia.
TIMDOT
TIMDOT avatar

876 posts since 6/8/14

31 Mar 2021 10:11
Dee wrote: MB lays their problems down quite well imo.
Call me cynical but when it comes to politics this is the kind of blanket praise I really can't get behind any more. "Yes mate. It is like that. Absolutely spot on." Gets said so much to things that are blatantly fucking wrong.
MerciBeau wrote: Labour's issues are more systemic than just Starmer IMO - 3 distinct ideas of what the party should be that right now seem irreconcilable:
Labour's central problem is that socialism from above is impossible. You can't have socialism within capitalism. Marx saw this.
Labour is where socialists go to not be socialist any more.

Labour right: Some of the worst people you could imagine in politics. You would have to be seriously nasty to present a veneer of empathy while doing the absolute most to make the lives of normal people worse.
Labour left: Some of the most well meaning people you could meet in politics. I think a lot seriously struggle with the future of capitalism. They care about the problems in society and see Labour as a vehicle for change, but that all gets sidelined for electoralism.
MerciBeau wrote: parrot watered-down post-structuralist critiques they don't really understand, desperate to import US culture war ideas that don't translate here.
Mate your brain is being poisoned by the internet. No one is talking post-modernism in Labour. Being vaguely contrarian to the current existing system isn't the same thing.
Rez
Rez avatar

8678 posts since 5/4/09

31 Mar 2021 10:12
I don't know why you've assumed that I'm not involved in local politics and charity work.

R I haven't said any of those things…I'm incredibly sceptical of electoral politics and its impact in changing things, especially the labour party getting in in any incarnation.

I've literally just been pushing back on the idea that labour will be more successful if they appear to be more socially conservative.

And I think people here are getting mad at what the papers say about how people are acting on twitter, which is not really politics either…
R
R avatar

13291 posts since 17/5/03

31 Mar 2021 10:12
TIMDOT wrote: socialism is impossible

or just this
TIMDOT
TIMDOT avatar

876 posts since 6/8/14

31 Mar 2021 10:28
R wrote:
TIMDOT wrote: socialism is impossible

or just this
It's necessary. The environment is very very clapped.
R
R avatar

13291 posts since 17/5/03

31 Mar 2021 10:33
stifling people's innate ambition and even greater public sector inefficiency?
TIMDOT
TIMDOT avatar

876 posts since 6/8/14

31 Mar 2021 10:50
Rez wrote: No nobody is talking about 'critical race theory' except the right, literally no one, it is a tiny academic field that has likely never been uttered by anyone in the UK outside of academia.

You have been utterly defrauded by the right wing papers I'm afraid!

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/23/uk-critical-race-theory-trump-conservatives-structural-inequality

If you think going on about things being 'woke' isn't just a huge dog whistle, you have been taken for a mug!
What's annoying about identity politics or privilege theory is that it is presented as something new but has been around since the 60's and I see a lot of similarities to Maoist self-criticism. Right and Left wing grifters try to repackage it. Seeing class as the main divide in society is the only way out of being increasingly atomised and isolated politically.
_
Off topic. A strange phenomenon has happened, there has been a Jezza/Momentum to Stalinist pipeline among young people disenfranchised with Labour. I think if you boil it down Stalinists also believe in socialism from above, but more importantly, historically they have been much better at taking on their political opponents, unlike Jeremy Corbyn.
TROYBOY
TROYBOY avatar

904 posts since 28/2/12

31 Mar 2021 11:06
the amount of shirtless goons around in south london is shockingLaughing out loud Laughing out loud
TIMDOT
TIMDOT avatar

876 posts since 6/8/14

31 Mar 2021 13:25
The timing on this Laughing out loud addresses a lot of what was said on the past couple pages.

Agree with a lot of it but part of the Black Panthers downfall was that they didn't organise in workplaces as much as they did poor communities. Workers are seriously lacking confidence right now, British Gas forcing their workers to take a 15% pay cut on fire rehire contracts is just a sign of things to come.
Rez
Rez avatar

8678 posts since 5/4/09

31 Mar 2021 13:40
I completely agree, there are loads of ways you can help on a local level that make a huge material difference to people's lives. It was cool seeing the DSA in America pick this up and fix tail lights and do repairs, I think there could be a similar move in the UK to help fix people's substandard housing.

I think an overlooked part of the black panther movement is direct action linked with rigorous theory. Good article on it here:

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/03/black-panther-party-revolution-fred-hampton - good article on it here.


^^^ On another Black Panther note, has anyone on here seen Judas and the Black Messiah yet?

Worth a rent, great seeing some more range out of Lakeith Stansfield. Having watched the latest Adam Curtis would really love to see a film about the Panther 21 court case.
TIMDOT
TIMDOT avatar

876 posts since 6/8/14

posted 31 Mar 2021 14:08, edited 31 Mar 2021 14:08
Managed to see it as part of a charity event that let me buy a early screening online.
LaKeith Stanfield massively over played it at times, needed a lot more subtlety when there are people right next to him scrutinizing what he is doing and saying.
There is lip service to BPs radical ideas towards the start of the film but it feels like it did this just to get it out of the way. The biggest flaw of the film is that it essentially tried to justify the assassination of Fred Hampton because it showed the shooting of cops in quite a provocative and exploitative way and his murder was just payback.

I think it was quite a clever film in how it manipulates the audience.
swiftus
swiftus avatar

1499 posts since 1/7/09

31 Mar 2021 14:37
R wrote: stifling people's innate ambition and even greater public sector inefficiency?

The amount of baseless parroting you do is embarrassing
R
R avatar

13291 posts since 17/5/03

31 Mar 2021 15:17
think they're pretty commonly accepted
Crackajack
Crackajack avatar

7960 posts since 21/4/05

31 Mar 2021 15:22
Can you explain those concepts for those who aren't enlightened then?
R
R avatar

13291 posts since 17/5/03

31 Mar 2021 15:23
no need to be a condescending prick.