General Discussion: Politics thread


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Dee
Dee avatar

12006 posts since 22/11/07

31 Mar 2021 15:55
Serious lack of banter on here these days.

Ppl so highly strung, perhaps over-educated, underachieving or just mightily pissed and spend too much time sucking on the old teat of social media.
MerciBeau
MerciBeau avatar

4360 posts since 7/7/06

31 Mar 2021 16:12
misled wrote:
MerciBeau wrote: Post Sarah Everett vigil we could have had an policy proposal to make all sexual offences immediately put perverts on a list - instead it was ‘Yes All Men’.

I'm sorry but this is so wrong. It wasn't 'Yes All Men' it was a lot of people saying 'Not All Men' in an attempt to make excuses and deny the problem. also, "put perverts on a list" is straight out of a Daily Mail headline. That won't prevent anything, or increase conviction. Have a read of this thread to see what the courts are up against after many years of underfunding.



Like Inverse says maybe leave this one to the people that are actually having to deal with this.

Yeah that seems legit - and I suppose this is my point - leave it to the people with the experience and expertise to solve the challenges - my assertion is simply that social media activists are the worst possible people to have in the conversation. Whether that’s Tommy Robinson or some nut case banging on about White Fragility- they shouldn’t be shaping race equality projects.
swiftus
swiftus avatar

1457 posts since 1/7/09

31 Mar 2021 16:24
Dee wrote: Serious lack of banter on here these days.

Ppl so highly strung, perhaps over-educated, underachieving or just mightily pissed and spend too much time sucking on the old teat of social media.

It's a politics thread…not generally accepted to be the best subject of banter Roll Eyes
swiftus
swiftus avatar

1457 posts since 1/7/09

31 Mar 2021 16:35
R wrote: think they're pretty commonly accepted

That's the thing. They may be commonly accepted (most things fed top-down are), but that doesn't make them right. It's like that analogy with the 5 monkeys.

I know Snaye mentioned in another thread, but have you tried to read more about what the alternatives are? You seem fixed in one mindset, and anything that challenges your view is just dismissed without a second thought.

Even when you accept things aren't 'fair' (see the exchange on public schools), you seem to shrug your shoulders Roll Eyes Are you then genuinely surprised / get pissy when others start to complain about things?

When's the last time you changed your mind about something relatively important?
R
R avatar

13284 posts since 17/5/03

31 Mar 2021 16:48
far from fixed, pretty pragmatic.

I'm not allowed to have an opinion that isn't yours?
EssexBoyII
EssexBoyII avatar

7118 posts since 5/6/07

31 Mar 2021 17:00
Talking about politics is such a fruitless task. The internet has definitely hyper charged the right/left divide and god it’s tedious.
swiftus
swiftus avatar

1457 posts since 1/7/09

31 Mar 2021 17:04
R wrote: I'm not allowed to have an opinion that isn't yours?

Jawdropping!

That's not even the point…

The point is that you reason for your opinion is because it's 'pretty commonly accepted'. That is the most robust defence that you can think of?!?

I give up.

Btw, there are actually things I agree with you on. This is nothing personal.

R
R avatar

13284 posts since 17/5/03

31 Mar 2021 17:20
commonly accepted because it's clear that socialism doesn't and hasn't worked?
MerciBeau
MerciBeau avatar

4360 posts since 7/7/06

31 Mar 2021 17:30
EssexBoyII wrote: Talking about politics is such a fruitless task. The internet has definitely hyper charged the right/left divide and god it’s tedious.

Kinda, but I did order that book Rez recommended so occasionally it does help you think in new ways… on a forum like this it isn’t as bad I suppose - on Twitter / Reddit / Instagram however it’s pure mind rot I agree, the way they operate prioritises the most divisive and shallow takes.
Rez
Rez avatar

8665 posts since 5/4/09

posted 31 Mar 2021 17:55, edited 31 Mar 2021 17:55
I think more articles, links and recommendations would be a good way to ground some of this chat into something a bit more tangible.

Wards away bland truisms that you could just read elsewhere in any comments section!

I'm currently re-reading David Graber's Debt: The first 5000 years -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Debt-First-Years-David-Graeber/dp/1612194192/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1B1NV7CEFA7H0&dchild;=1&keywords;=debt+the+first+5%2C000+years&qid;=1617213201&sprefix;=debt+the+%2Caps%2C144&sr;=8-1

Put down Sapiens, read this, a much more interesting anthropological study of debt that'll tell you more about how things have led to where we are.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/End-Policing-Alex-Vitale/dp/1784782890

I'm having a hard time with this as it's mostly about American policing and institutions, will probably give up but there are some interesting thoughts about the history and purpose of policing.

And also this is fucking wicked: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nixonland-President-Fracturing-Americas-1965-1972/dp/074324303X

If anyone's interested in how things feel 'split' now culturally it's good to keep in mind that these kind of divisions have happened before and were just as intense, especially in the Nixon years.

Soz Dee that was a lot of words so here's some banter :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdRNoysQx9Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T72TopWbXJg

Current 'independent' 'reviews' into institutional racism and policing at the vigil remind me a lot of these sketches.
swiftus
swiftus avatar

1457 posts since 1/7/09

31 Mar 2021 17:59
R wrote: commonly accepted because it's clear that socialism doesn't and hasn't worked?

Not sure why you think I'm advocating for socialism, but whatever.

Who is the current form of capitalism working for?

In the US, in real terms, the median wage for working men (~$36k) is less than it was four decades ago.

In the UK, the number of people using food banks had risen every year for the last 12 years.

Is the current system working for these people?

Open your eyes, just a little bit…believe it or not, things could actually be better without having to shout 'socialist' or 'communist' at everyone who disagrees with you…
R
R avatar

13284 posts since 17/5/03

31 Mar 2021 18:04
another condescending prick, while putting words in my mouth.
MerciBeau
MerciBeau avatar

4360 posts since 7/7/06

31 Mar 2021 18:22
Rez wrote: I think more articles, links and recommendations would be a good way to ground some of this chat into something a bit more tangible.

Wards away bland truisms that you could just read elsewhere in any comments section!

I'm currently re-reading David Graber's Debt: The first 5000 years -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Debt-First-Years-David-Graeber/dp/1612194192/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1B1NV7CEFA7H0&dchild;=1&keywords;=debt+the+first+5%2C000+years&qid;=1617213201&sprefix;=debt+the+%2Caps%2C144&sr;=8-1

Put down Sapiens, read this, a much more interesting anthropological study of debt that'll tell you more about how things have led to where we are.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/End-Policing-Alex-Vitale/dp/1784782890

I'm having a hard time with this as it's mostly about American policing and institutions, will probably give up but there are some interesting thoughts about the history and purpose of policing.

And also this is fucking wicked: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nixonland-President-Fracturing-Americas-1965-1972/dp/074324303X

If anyone's interested in how things feel 'split' now culturally it's good to keep in mind that these kind of divisions have happened before and were just as intense, especially in the Nixon years.

Soz Dee that was a lot of words so here's some banter :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdRNoysQx9Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T72TopWbXJg

Current 'independent' 'reviews' into institutional racism and policing at the vigil remind me a lot of these sketches.

I’ll peep some of those…
You should check this:

https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/12/17/the-toxoplasma-of-rage/
joeyjojo
joeyjojo avatar

4580 posts since 24/8/06

posted 31 Mar 2021 18:33, edited 31 Mar 2021 18:33
fråga för Morning Mist - tror du att Sverigedemokraterna ska komma till makten nästa?
swiftus
swiftus avatar

1457 posts since 1/7/09

31 Mar 2021 18:59
R wrote: another condescending prick, while putting words in my mouth.

Roll Eyes
Wario
Wario avatar

11 posts since 3/2/20

31 Mar 2021 19:18
One of my absolute idols in UK Government is none other than the Right Honourable Michael Fabricant, MP for Litchfield in Staffordshire. He has a cracking hairpiece, which he denies sporting, but it really does compete with some of the best celeb hair pieces such as those worn by by Elton John, Travolta, and of course Nicholas Lyndhurst's pony tail in Only Fools and Horses.
TIMDOT
TIMDOT avatar

876 posts since 6/8/14

31 Mar 2021 19:38
As you were.

White boy summer. Now that's a quality shit post.
swiftus
swiftus avatar

1457 posts since 1/7/09

31 Mar 2021 21:04
R wrote: another condescending prick, while putting words in my mouth.

If you have 15 mins spare, have a watch of this and let me know what you think. Do you agree/disagree?

https://youtu.be/3nsoN-LS8RQ

Or just carry on name-calling, whatever.
Razorlight123
Razorlight123 avatar

4937 posts since 13/1/10

1 Apr 2021 06:45
https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2

Interesting page
Rez
Rez avatar

8665 posts since 5/4/09

1 Apr 2021 08:00
Also I would definitely recommend Peter Oborne's new book

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Assault-Truth-Johnson-Emergence-Barbarism/dp/139850100X/ref=sr_1_1?adgrpid=117789382455&dchild;=1&gclid;=CjwKCAjw3pWDBhB3EiwAV1c5rJU0ZM1SrRsuPpm7RBeBkY2kki3G7QM-pQN7arBP90qlCKpX49AowhoCY18QAvD_BwE&hvadid;=496605234680&hvdev;=c&hvlocphy;=9044963&hvnetw;=g&hvqmt;=e&hvrand;=1034551570472223389&hvtargid;=kwd-377873380796&hydadcr;=24427_1748929&keywords;=assault+on+the+truth&qid;=1617264338&sr;=8-1

re: reading people you don't agree with, I'm pretty opposed to most of Oborne's conservative politics but I do greatly admire how unafraid he is to burn all his bridges with the British press and call them out on their nonsense.