General Discussion: Politics thread


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Double D
Double D avatar

3552 posts since 8/3/07

16 Sep 2015 11:51
5 years is a long time to be speculating about election results, right now I'm glad to have an opposition leader who will actually hold the Tories to account
TIMDOT
TIMDOT avatar

876 posts since 6/8/14

16 Sep 2015 12:07
ShaneB wrote: Left wing / right wing is meaningless. Nobody cares.

That's only your perception of it. Influenced probably by the media. There would be two very different outcomes if either side of the spectrum were to run what they consider a successful government.

Corbyn will be undermined. People in labour think they lost the election because there policies were too left wing! Greece's Syriza were elected and now they're implementing worse cuts than there predecessors.

Labour returning to "socialism"? Were they ever?
EssexBoyII
EssexBoyII avatar

7214 posts since 5/6/07

16 Sep 2015 12:11
ShaneB wrote:
EssexBoyII wrote:
-DiscoTits- wrote: Essexboy and Carl Lewis. Explain why labour are finished? I think the reason they lost the election is because they weren't left enough. They offered no real alternative to conservatives. That's why the SNP did so well in Scotland because agree with their policies or not they offer an alternative to Conservatives. JC is the man to bring back the voters who went green,ukip / lib dem. And I think he might even win back some of the people who of recent times have decided to vote SNP/Plaid etc

Just cannot see the 'average British male' voting for him in a million years. Get rid of nuclear weapons. That's 50% of the UK gone there. Increase income tax - there's the other 35%. He ain't winning fuck all outside twitter/QT unreality world

Who's the average Briton? 40% of people in full employment earn less than 19k a year; the median income in London is about 30k. Barely enough to survive; infact, less than 25k you can barely survive without tax credit or housing benefit - government subsidies.

Add to the mix the housing crisis (where I live in Ealing / Hillingdon an average 2 up 2 down has shot up to over 400k) you have recipe for vigorous support. I don't support him per se, he's merely symptomatic of the economic malaise we find ourselves in; this country has been so badly governed in beggars belief.


No family I know on lower income would support the non-renewal of Trident, higher immigration, higher income tax, withdrawal from NATO. These are deeply unpopular policies with the electorate. He might gain some traction with the youth and London residents because of scrapping Uni fees and linking rental income to mean income but the older generations, the landlords etc, you know, the people voting are not going to support any of it. Just my opinion
TIMDOT
TIMDOT avatar

876 posts since 6/8/14

posted 16 Sep 2015 12:16, edited 16 Sep 2015 12:16
The landlords; the bourgeoisie not supporting progressive policies? Shock horror.
Don't even try to equate the interests of poor working class families to them, there lives couldn't be any more different. The ideas that rule society are that of the ruling class.
Crackajack
Crackajack avatar

8008 posts since 21/4/05

16 Sep 2015 12:22
EssexBoyII wrote:
ShaneB wrote:
EssexBoyII wrote:
-DiscoTits- wrote: Essexboy and Carl Lewis. Explain why labour are finished? I think the reason they lost the election is because they weren't left enough. They offered no real alternative to conservatives. That's why the SNP did so well in Scotland because agree with their policies or not they offer an alternative to Conservatives. JC is the man to bring back the voters who went green,ukip / lib dem. And I think he might even win back some of the people who of recent times have decided to vote SNP/Plaid etc

Just cannot see the 'average British male' voting for him in a million years. Get rid of nuclear weapons. That's 50% of the UK gone there. Increase income tax - there's the other 35%. He ain't winning fuck all outside twitter/QT unreality world

Who's the average Briton? 40% of people in full employment earn less than 19k a year; the median income in London is about 30k. Barely enough to survive; infact, less than 25k you can barely survive without tax credit or housing benefit - government subsidies.

Add to the mix the housing crisis (where I live in Ealing / Hillingdon an average 2 up 2 down has shot up to over 400k) you have recipe for vigorous support. I don't support him per se, he's merely symptomatic of the economic malaise we find ourselves in; this country has been so badly governed in beggars belief.


No family I know on lower income would support the non-renewal of Trident, higher immigration, higher income tax, withdrawal from NATO. These are deeply unpopular policies with the electorate. He might gain some traction with the youth and London residents because of scrapping Uni fees and linking rental income to mean income but the older generations, the landlords etc, you know, the people voting are not going to support any of it. Just my opinion

It's clearly in the interest of those on a lower income to want the trident money distributed to spending that will help them more directly, and I doubt those on lower income are actually going to be affected by higher income tax so that seems a moot point.

Higher immigration affects those on lower income because of the scarcity of housing and jobs - something Corbyn can hopefully find policies to alleviate. I'm not sure that many people are actually against more immigrants in today's society per se, I think we are already quite a 'mixed' society but I can understand their belief, thanks to the media, that immigrants cause the above problems when in fact it's a failure of successive governments.
EssexBoyII
EssexBoyII avatar

7214 posts since 5/6/07

16 Sep 2015 12:29
Crackajack wrote: I'm not sure that many people are actually against more immigrants in today's society

Laughing out loud
-DiscoTits-
-DiscoTits- avatar

952 posts since 26/11/07

posted 16 Sep 2015 12:32, edited 16 Sep 2015 12:32
This ^ . I don't actually know of anyone who doesn't welcome diversified communities. Unless they hold old, zenophobic beliefs that have most likely been inherited from older generations or a penchant for digesting what the right wing media shove down your throat on a daily basis. Or if they are the type of family who are unwilling to work/hold the belief that immigrants are taking their jobs. I class myself as left wing but I do think too many people in Britain are lazy and do not want to work to earn a decent wage. I welcome immigrants who want to come here and play a part in our society.
EssexBoyII
EssexBoyII avatar

7214 posts since 5/6/07

16 Sep 2015 12:49
You two are missing the point. I'm not saying that having an issue with increases in immigration is logical, just pointing out that the majority does have an issue with it as countless polls suggest. Why do you think people would discuss their anti-immigration views with a self confessed leftie with opposing views. I think you're making the mistake of thinking that your bubble - you, your friends, your peers, people you follow on twitter and representative of wider society
Crackajack
Crackajack avatar

8008 posts since 21/4/05

16 Sep 2015 12:56
I accept my views might be influenced by living in a city, but I was saying primarily that the reasons some people are against immigration is not because they simply don't like them, or are racist etc but because of the effects on them that are wrongly attributed to immigrants as an easy target.

If you looked at the reverse, would people who currently oppose immigration still be against it if somehow this meant the anti-immigrants they got a better wage, cheaper housing etc? I dont think there are that many against immigration out of 'principle' any more, just they are reacting to a perceived affect on themselves.
RickRude
RickRude avatar

3927 posts since 13/1/12

16 Sep 2015 14:01
Housing crisis - what housing crisis?
carl lewis
carl lewis avatar

23965 posts since 14/10/04

16 Sep 2015 14:32
-DiscoTits- wrote: Essexboy and Carl Lewis. Explain why labour are finished? I think the reason they lost the election is because they weren't left enough. They offered no real alternative to conservatives. That's why the SNP did so well in Scotland because agree with their policies or not they offer an alternative to Conservatives. JC is the man to bring back the voters who went green,ukip / lib dem. And I think he might even win back some of the people who of recent times have decided to vote SNP/Plaid etc


Ill keep it short.

Labour have no leaders of the level of Blair.

Not sure how much respect JC will actually get on the global stage.

Labour are failing in the Home Counties.

National debt is sky high, what are plans to really make a dent in it?

JC has put in long life jokers like Diana Abbot back in the mix.

People I know are leaving Labour and shifting over to Tories.

Ed failed Cameron was there for the taking and failed.
carl lewis
carl lewis avatar

23965 posts since 14/10/04

posted 16 Sep 2015 14:34, edited 16 Sep 2015 14:34
Double D wrote: 5 years is a long time to be speculating about election results, right now I'm glad to have an opposition leader who will actually hold the Tories to account

That time has gone, that was Ed's job.
carl lewis
carl lewis avatar

23965 posts since 14/10/04

16 Sep 2015 14:37
-DiscoTits- wrote: . I welcome immigrants who want to come here and play a part in our society.

That's how it should be.
adidaskev
adidaskev avatar

1001 posts since 30/11/11

16 Sep 2015 15:22
Crackajack wrote:
EssexBoyII wrote:
ShaneB wrote:
EssexBoyII wrote:
-DiscoTits- wrote: Essexboy and Carl Lewis. Explain why labour are finished? I think the reason they lost the election is because they weren't left enough. They offered no real alternative to conservatives. That's why the SNP did so well in Scotland because agree with their policies or not they offer an alternative to Conservatives. JC is the man to bring back the voters who went green,ukip / lib dem. And I think he might even win back some of the people who of recent times have decided to vote SNP/Plaid etc

Just cannot see the 'average British male' voting for him in a million years. Get rid of nuclear weapons. That's 50% of the UK gone there. Increase income tax - there's the other 35%. He ain't winning fuck all outside twitter/QT unreality world

Who's the average Briton? 40% of people in full employment earn less than 19k a year; the median income in London is about 30k. Barely enough to survive; infact, less than 25k you can barely survive without tax credit or housing benefit - government subsidies.

Add to the mix the housing crisis (where I live in Ealing / Hillingdon an average 2 up 2 down has shot up to over 400k) you have recipe for vigorous support. I don't support him per se, he's merely symptomatic of the economic malaise we find ourselves in; this country has been so badly governed in beggars belief.


No family I know on lower income would support the non-renewal of Trident, higher immigration, higher income tax, withdrawal from NATO. These are deeply unpopular policies with the electorate. He might gain some traction with the youth and London residents because of scrapping Uni fees and linking rental income to mean income but the older generations, the landlords etc, you know, the people voting are not going to support any of it. Just my opinion

It's clearly in the interest of those on a lower income to want the trident money distributed to spending that will help them more directly, and I doubt those on lower income are actually going to be affected by higher income tax so that seems a moot point.

Higher immigration affects those on lower income because of the scarcity of housing and jobs - something Corbyn can hopefully find policies to alleviate. I'm not sure that many people are actually against more immigrants in today's society per se, I think we are already quite a 'mixed' society but I can understand their belief, thanks to the media, that immigrants cause the above problems when in fact it's a failure of successive governments.

Spot on for me.

The problem JC has is that he isn't a 'political figure' in the sense that others are, but then he has time to gain this.

JC is bringing back to Labour what they stood for in the first place - The major problem being that he is too left and needs to centralize which I'm unsure if he will.

Those moving from Labour to Tory are probably moving as they were more tory than labour in the first place - Miliband was basically implementing tory policy hence the massive decline in Labour as Discotits said.
Double D
Double D avatar

3552 posts since 8/3/07

posted 16 Sep 2015 15:40, edited 16 Sep 2015 15:40
carl lewis wrote:
Double D wrote: 5 years is a long time to be speculating about election results, right now I'm glad to have an opposition leader who will actually hold the Tories to account

That time has gone, that was Ed's job.
Labour didn't keep the Tories in check at all, most of the current leadership candidates voted with the Tories to avoid looking weak on immigration, benefits, defence etc. thankfully the LDs shot or watered down a lot of their more insane policies. With the economy strengthening it seems highly unlikely that any Labour candidate would beat presumably Osbourne in (edit: 2020 derp), may as well be one who has the balls to fight the Tories rather than playing and losing the percentages game again. The other question is if Corbyn can engage with younger voters successfully, theres a huge amount of votes for the taking and Labour can't keep bashing their head against the wall worrying about middle England.
carl lewis
carl lewis avatar

23965 posts since 14/10/04

16 Sep 2015 17:27
Doubt youngers will engage with a man in a C&A coat that hold a plastic carry bag around.
kid unknown
kid unknown avatar

5475 posts since 8/12/01

16 Sep 2015 18:10
How can someone in JC's position not even buy the right suit jacket size?

Worst fit ever.
YLAup
YLAup avatar

5762 posts since 5/9/11

16 Sep 2015 18:15
Doesn't give two shits
stoney
stoney avatar

17771 posts since 22/1/05

16 Sep 2015 18:17
Carl speaking sense, Id vote !
EssexBoyII
EssexBoyII avatar

7214 posts since 5/6/07

16 Sep 2015 18:25
carl lewis wrote: Doubt youngers will engage with a man in a C&A coat that hold a plastic carry bag around.

Laughing out loud