General Discussion: Politics thread


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Superprecise
Superprecise avatar

2056 posts since 16/7/11

21 Jun 2016 13:46
swede wrote: do you want scotland to leave us? because they will leave us for the eu. i guarantee another Scottish referundum will take place within 2 years of us leaving the eu

They'd have to join the Euro though, which likely won't be very appealing…
RickRude
RickRude avatar

3258 posts since 13/1/12

21 Jun 2016 13:49
How does it make me racist tho Swede, in what way? Stop making sweeping statments. I have never said I hate or dislike people from another race, nor am I against immigration nor am I against all of the EU's policies.

I think i have made that pretty clear and like a shit load of people from the UK - have been unsure about what to vote. The great thing about this thread is hearing other peoples well made points and views actually help me undertsand more.

Im quoting on my experiences, inner London, lower working Class. You dont have an insight into that - so the easy statment for you to make is the racist finger pointing jibe.

Add something meaningful to the thread instead of just labelling and pigeon holing people.

Your mates are not my mates - so applying that logic to me is like saying all your mates like eating caviar and champagne so how can you say its not nice.
RickRude
RickRude avatar

3258 posts since 13/1/12

21 Jun 2016 13:52
Burny - which is why my vote is not mainly focused on immigration
illwill
illwill avatar

3533 posts since 17/5/04

21 Jun 2016 13:53
andymakesglasses wrote:
Superprecise wrote: If we're quoting long rants, this rings true for me…

Good read that, thanks for posting it.

Best thing I've read so far
inspace
inspace avatar

144 posts since 26/11/11

21 Jun 2016 13:53
I haven't voted in over a decade and I'm all guns blazing on the out of EU idea, when you follow the money (which lets be honest, this is the real agenda) and you have banksta wankstas like Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan lobbying the Remain campaign you have to ask yourself why. People with power and invested interests telling us we will be in a deep depression when it was them who put us their.

However to contradict this would we want to hand over any power we still have left (that has been enforced by the EU like human rights) to our own government who would prefer to shut down our public services like the NHS etc so they can allow bankers + corporations from paying tax when ours go further up.
andymakesglasses
andymakesglasses avatar

20167 posts since 26/1/06

21 Jun 2016 13:57
Superprecise wrote: They'd have to join the Euro though, which likely won't be very appealing…

Not true. The likeliest scenario would be that Scotland would just keep using the Pound.

It's unlikely there'll be another Scottish referendum in the next 2 years. Maybe 5 years, but possibly even longer than that. Support would need to be running at 60% for a prolonged period in polls before the SNP would consider calling another one. A Brexit when Scotland votes overwhelmingly to stay in may increase the support for independence but probably not to the required level initially.

If Britain votes to leave there'll be an incredibly tortuous and prolonged exit process during which nothing would be clear.
adidaskev
adidaskev avatar

1001 posts since 30/11/11

21 Jun 2016 14:00
inspace wrote: I haven't voted in over a decade and I'm all guns blazing on the out of EU idea, when you follow the money (which lets be honest, this is the real agenda) and you have banksta wankstas like Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan lobbying the Remain campaign you have to ask yourself why. People with power and invested interests telling us we will be in a deep depression when it was them who put us their.

However to contradict this would we want to hand over any power we still have left (that has been enforced by the EU like human rights) to our own government who would prefer to shut down our public services like the NHS etc so they can allow bankers + corporations from paying tax when ours go further up.

But as the column on the last page states, we're affected by the massive corporate companies like JP & Sachs whether we are in or out of the EU. That's the structure of the world's finances, regardless of where you are in the world and who you are 'affiliated' to.


burny
burny avatar

5786 posts since 25/5/06

21 Jun 2016 14:01
RickRude wrote: Burny - which is why my vote is not mainly focused on immigration

I know, but you did say that housing was a problem because of it. Which is a mute point because whatever happen, the same amount of people come, and Brussels will have hold us over a barrel to keep that level in leu of trade deals.

@inspace: the human rights act was put in place to stop countries from gassing their own citizens, so I don't think its worth arguing about.
andymakesglasses
andymakesglasses avatar

20167 posts since 26/1/06

21 Jun 2016 14:02
inspace wrote: I haven't voted in over a decade

Shame on you.

inspace wrote: when you follow the money (which lets be honest, this is the real agenda) and you have banksta wankstas like Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan lobbying the Remain campaign you have to ask yourself why.

Because the business case for remaining in the EU is sound and the alternative is a grim scenario in the short term at least.

inspace wrote: However to contradict this would we want to hand over any power we still have left (that has been enforced by the EU like human rights) to our own government who would prefer to shut down our public services like the NHS etc so they can allow bankers + corporations from paying tax when ours go further up.

Exactly. Look at the politicians who are pro-Brexit. Are they suddenly going to change a political lifetime of beliefs and start doing stuff for the "British working man"? Do you really think that this magical £350 million a week we'll be saving will be spent on the NHS, affordable homes and farming?
Dee
Dee avatar

11131 posts since 22/11/07

21 Jun 2016 14:02
Amazed at all the crystal balls out there! Must have missed a bargains thread post.

andymakesglasses
andymakesglasses avatar

20167 posts since 26/1/06

21 Jun 2016 14:06
It's not about crystal balls Dee, it's about likely scenarios.

Perhaps for the benefit of those of us without crystal balls you could tell us why a Brexit makes sense.
trailofdavid
trailofdavid avatar

6334 posts since 14/8/09

21 Jun 2016 14:11
Dee wrote: Amazed at all the crystal balls out there! Must have missed a bargains thread post.

Dee wrote: Totally agree with rickrude.

Economic predictions are short game, we will thrive with the WTO and renegotiation…….. eventually.
andymakesglasses
andymakesglasses avatar

20167 posts since 26/1/06

21 Jun 2016 14:17
Dee wrote: Economic predictions are short game, we will thrive with the WTO and renegotiation…….. eventually.


WTO warns on tortuous Brexit trade talks

WTO head says leaving EU would cost UK consumers £9bn a year

WTO chief says post-Brexit trade talks must start from scratch

World trade chief says post-Brexit 'WTO option' may be unfeasible for UK

Uncertainty for UK trade outside EU, says WTO chief

RickRude
RickRude avatar

3258 posts since 13/1/12

21 Jun 2016 14:22
to all the people voting in - can i ask - do you see any good points if we leave?

I can see good points if we stay
illwill
illwill avatar

3533 posts since 17/5/04

21 Jun 2016 14:25
Some trade agreements take longer than decade to hash out. Can we afford to be in the wilderness for so long?
inspace
inspace avatar

144 posts since 26/11/11

21 Jun 2016 14:25
@adidaskev I agree with you, I just have a serious disdain for the bas'tids and the countless tax exceptions/bonuses they've been rewarded under this current government. (While people with disability are having their benefits removed under austerity etc)

@andymakesglasses I haven't felt the need to vote until now and in truth don't believe in the current voting system. However this vote on the EU ref gets to the true core of who pulls the strings in our country.
Dee
Dee avatar

11131 posts since 22/11/07

21 Jun 2016 14:26
Brexit makes sense on so many points as does remaining.

Everyone needs to weigh those up and cut through the incessant bull shit being spun on both sides and make your own minds up. I've already voted, on the fence for a while but the facts around CAP, regulations and having very little control of immigration within the eu helped shape my decision. This and the economic scaremongering which I find very short sighted and of less importance in the long run.

I also believe that this will not be an out and there's no going back. I prefer to keep an open mind.

I do agree with you Andy on a few points although I think if we left and Scotland wanted to part (quite right that the SNP wouldn't call that until they had some favourable figures to work on) they would likely adopt the euro, retaining the pound outside of the union doesn't make sense to me.

I'll be at peace regardless of how it goes but if we Brexit then I would like to think Scotland would be with is for some time.


inspace
inspace avatar

144 posts since 26/11/11

21 Jun 2016 14:28
andy those are good points on the current government spending, they wouldn't invest in the public sector.
Dee
Dee avatar

11131 posts since 22/11/07

posted 21 Jun 2016 14:30, edited 21 Jun 2016 14:30
Ok TOD slight predictions but I don't think there's anyone out there that would say we won't eventfully thrive. May take some work but like to think positively, which tbf has been the main issue with the remain campaign.

andymakesglasses
andymakesglasses avatar

20167 posts since 26/1/06

21 Jun 2016 14:37
RickRude wrote: to all the people voting in - can i ask - do you see any good points if we leave?

Off the top of my head the only positive I can see is the lifting of a bit of bureaucracy, but even when it comes to "EU red tape" I think the good vastly outweighs the bad.

inspace wrote: @andymakesglasses I haven't felt the need to vote until now and in truth don't believe in the current voting system. However this vote on the EU ref gets to the true core of who pulls the strings in our country.

I can't imagine not voting, even if it's for the status quo (and I'm talking generally here rather than specifically about the EU referendum). Not feeling the need to vote suggests you're ok with the status quo. If the majority take that position but a motivated minority vote for some abomination then we'd be in the shit.

Who do you think "pulls the strings in our country"?