General Discussion: Politics thread


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trailofdavid
trailofdavid avatar

6334 posts since 14/8/09

21 Jun 2016 14:39
Dee, I agree with you about the nature of campaigning on both sides. There's definitely a smug sense of superiority on the remain camp, but leave dont help when Farage, Gove et al are the best they can wheel out
illwill
illwill avatar

3533 posts since 17/5/04

posted 21 Jun 2016 14:40, edited 21 Jun 2016 14:40
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3651956/Hundreds-migrants-closed-Calais-violent-rampage-tried-board-ferries-UK-police-used-tear-gas-force-back.html

Do you want this on your doorstep or with 20 miles of water in between?

There's no way France will maintain our border in Calais if we leave.
andymakesglasses
andymakesglasses avatar

20167 posts since 26/1/06

21 Jun 2016 14:45
Dee wrote: I don't think there's anyone out there that would say we won't eventfully thrive.

I've seen plenty of people say we'd survive, I haven't seen (m)any who say we'd thrive.

Dee wrote: May take some work but like to think positively, which tbf has been the main issue with the remain campaign.

Is this really true? You voted "out" mainly because you don't like the way the "in" campaign has been conducted? Surely it should be about policies and realities not personalities and conduct? To me this is as weird as the politicians who have changed sides during the campaign because they don't like the way the campaign has been fought.
inspace
inspace avatar

144 posts since 26/11/11

21 Jun 2016 14:56
@andy firstly we are in the 'shit' and secondly our money is being controlled by the EU which would imply that they pull the strings in how much of our money is being spent in our country.
burny
burny avatar

5786 posts since 25/5/06

21 Jun 2016 14:57
andymakesglasses wrote:
Dee wrote: I don't think there's anyone out there that would say we won't eventfully thrive.

I've seen plenty of people say we'd survive, I haven't seen (m)any who say we'd thrive.

Dee wrote: May take some work but like to think positively, which tbf has been the main issue with the remain campaign.

Is this really true? You voted "out" mainly because you don't like the way the "in" campaign has been conducted? Surely it should be about policies and realities not personalities and conduct? To me this is as weird as the politicians who have changed sides during the campaign because they don't like the way the campaign has been fought.

When they say thrive, they use Switzerland and Norway as benchmarks. Forgetting the financial crisis that Switzerland put itself in by being stubborn on open borders when negotiating trade deals. Both Norway and Switzerland allow MORE people in than the UK does currently.
sydneyking
sydneyking avatar

4514 posts since 26/9/09

posted 21 Jun 2016 14:57, edited 21 Jun 2016 14:57
Dee wrote: I don't think there's anyone out there that would say we won't eventfully thrive.

What is that based on?

That AA gill article was great and actually made me lol on a couple of occassions. Thanks for sharing, that was in the Times you say? i obviously missed it
Dee
Dee avatar

11128 posts since 22/11/07

21 Jun 2016 14:58
illwill wrote: Some trade agreements take longer than decade to hash out. Can we afford to be in the wilderness for so long?

Wilderness!! We're all doomed. Trade will carry on, very little will change immediately other than perhaps some market reaction. We will carry on consuming.
RickRude
RickRude avatar

3258 posts since 13/1/12

posted 21 Jun 2016 15:02, edited 21 Jun 2016 15:02
per capita Burny - swiss have 8 million people, Norway have 5 - we have 64 million
Dee
Dee avatar

11128 posts since 22/11/07

posted 21 Jun 2016 15:05, edited 21 Jun 2016 15:05
Sydneyking …. Even your PM when pressed in front of millions accepted we will prosper regardless of which way we go, it's a matter, in his opinion, of how easy that road is.

AA Gill makes some good points. Try looking at facts rather than personal opinions, especially of public weight. I work for a v large pro EU media org and the shit being spoon fed, on both sides, is unreal. Jo Cox media circus anyone? It's all got very silly and so close to call it's inevitable to be farcical.

Anyone siding with remain because Beckham is and the Doris is 'so proud of him'.?

New depths.
sydneyking
sydneyking avatar

4514 posts since 26/9/09

21 Jun 2016 15:07
My PM?
trailofdavid
trailofdavid avatar

6334 posts since 14/8/09

21 Jun 2016 15:15
This is a bit of a tug on the hearstrings piece, but I liked this from Henry Winter in the Times football supp today

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why-my-30-years-of-covering-football-in-europe-has-convinced-me-to-vote-remain-8hq9vds3j?shareToken=5106bf0afc4dc6b0b0844e58d8663d0f
andymakesglasses
andymakesglasses avatar

20167 posts since 26/1/06

posted 21 Jun 2016 15:17, edited 21 Jun 2016 15:17
inspace wrote: @andy firstly we are in the 'shit' and secondly our money is being controlled by the EU which would imply that they pull the strings in how much of our money is being spent in our country.

How much of our money "is being controlled by the EU"?

If you think this is shit why haven't you voted for 10 years?

Dee wrote: AA Gill makes some good points. Try looking at facts rather than personal opinions, especially of public weight. I work for a v large pro EU media org and the shit being spoon fed, on both sides, is unreal. Jo Cox media circus anyone? It's all got very silly and so close to call it's inevitable to be farcical.

Anyone siding with remain because Beckham is and the Doris is 'so proud of him'.?

New depths.

I posted the AA Gill article because what he says neatly sums up my feelings on the subject. Of course it's a personal opinion, as is mine, but personal opinions written eloquently can make people look at the facts in a new light.

The media circus is over the top, but that's what they do. Both sides are guilty of peddling half-facts, mistruths and downright lies. What's the difference between siding with "remain" because Beckham supports that and voting "leave" because you don't like the way the "remain" campaign has been run? In both cases the facts are secondary.
adidaskev
adidaskev avatar

1001 posts since 30/11/11

21 Jun 2016 15:18
inspace wrote: @adidaskev I agree with you, I just have a serious disdain for the bas'tids and the countless tax exceptions/bonuses they've been rewarded under this current government. (While people with disability are having their benefits removed under austerity etc)

@andymakesglasses I haven't felt the need to vote until now and in truth don't believe in the current voting system. However this vote on the EU ref gets to the true core of who pulls the strings in our country.

Exactly, and the exceptions/tax etc. can all be tackled via Britain (correct me if I'm wrong). The disability change earlier in the year was a UK change, not an EU one.

The current voting system which elects the party that decides what we spend our money on? The EU allocate cash, not what that cash is spent on. Osborne shafted the disabled, not Merkel.

The problem lies with the UK parties, and this ref is masking it and moving it towards the EU for a lot of the leave voters it appears. Tories & Labour are both a shambles and are doing nothing for the lower classes - hence the large OUT vote in England whilst Scotland are happy to remain in under a pro-active SNP gov.

Of course this is my opinion and not fact, but then this ref isn't really factual whatsoever with all the bollocks being spouted by both sides.

Dee
Dee avatar

11128 posts since 22/11/07

21 Jun 2016 15:19
sydneyking wrote: My PM?

the fuckwit better know as David Cameron.

If assuming incorrect then ignore me, half cut.
inspace
inspace avatar

144 posts since 26/11/11

21 Jun 2016 15:33
I agree with you bro @adidaskevCool
Dee
Dee avatar

11128 posts since 22/11/07

posted 21 Jun 2016 15:37, edited 21 Jun 2016 15:37
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/six-best-reasons-vote-leave/

Some flannel but some valid points - imo

As is he AA article Andy - no dig intended.
Dee
Dee avatar

11128 posts since 22/11/07

posted 21 Jun 2016 15:48, edited 21 Jun 2016 15:48
I take it all the stay puts have familiarised themselves with the terms and payments of the common agricultural policy, the major reason we pay more than we receive in to the EU? It's factual and worth reading, importantly not for the 'what ifs' but the actual facts and history of this agreement.

shralp-lad
shralp-lad avatar

880 posts since 21/4/11

21 Jun 2016 16:04
The referendum needs to happen as we're members under terms that the public was mis-sold.
trailofdavid
trailofdavid avatar

6334 posts since 14/8/09

21 Jun 2016 16:09
We pay more into the CAP than we get back that's true, but the overall benefits of eu membership cant simply be measured in £in/out.

Besides if we leave, do you think Tesco and Asda will just suddenly stop keeping dairy prices artificially low? Those subsidies are still going to have to come from somewhere unless everyone starts agreeing to pay a quid for a pint of milk
shralp-lad
shralp-lad avatar

880 posts since 21/4/11

21 Jun 2016 16:18
I think that almost every issue really has been put to bed for everyone (for each side). By which I mean I feel everyone's read everything they can bear, and have ultimately decided.

A final point that interested me this week. I think consideration has to be given to the fact that an unelected president ( and a politician from Luxembourg ( and rejected by the tiny country of Luxembourg)) is renegotiating the sanctions on Russia on our behalf.