General Discussion: random news stories


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shame
shame avatar

1705 posts since 17/7/12

1 Nov 2016 19:15
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/je-suis-louis-smith-must-free-mock-islam/

bigotry at its best
Superprecise
Superprecise avatar

2056 posts since 16/7/11

1 Nov 2016 19:36
Bigotry or free speech? Religion is ludicrous to many of us and deserves ridicule. ANY religion.
shame
shame avatar

1705 posts since 17/7/12

1 Nov 2016 19:51
just to clarify:
bigotry on part of the British Gymnastics and everyone who even considers his video a problem.
These days it seems to be a bigger problem to have a laugh, than to give people death threats for a private video.
TIMDOT
TIMDOT avatar

862 posts since 6/8/14

1 Nov 2016 20:28
In isolation the video is a shit joke.
But in the real world context of real hatred towards the group they're mocking I think the accumulation of these shit-jokes becomes anti-democratic, Islamophobic.
shame wrote: to give people death threats for a private video.
This is fucked up but I'm not concerned with only my democracy here. Foreign policy doesn't offend. It oppresses.

MerciBeau
MerciBeau avatar

4324 posts since 7/7/06

1 Nov 2016 21:16
quality comment:
'To mock a killingbird'
shame
shame avatar

1705 posts since 17/7/12

2 Nov 2016 07:47
TIMDOT wrote: In isolation the video is a shit joke.
But in the real world context of real hatred towards the group they're mocking I think the accumulation of these shit-jokes becomes anti-democratic, Islamophobic.
shame wrote: to give people death threats for a private video.
This is fucked up but I'm not concerned with only my democracy here. Foreign policy doesn't offend. It oppresses.
he is mocking an idea (the religion itself), there's no hateful speech on muslims or whatever.
And just listen to yourself. 'This is fuckedup, BUT…'
After Charlie Hebdo people said the same, always with an excuse or some personal agenda to explain it or why western culture is the one to blame. There's no need for it. It's fucked up what happened to this guy for nothing, end of moral discussion.
Crackajack
Crackajack avatar

7061 posts since 21/4/05

2 Nov 2016 09:13

I'm not taking a position or referring to this particular video, but if we want to lawfully stop speech by the likes of ISIS supporters handing out flyers, isn't it necessary that to some extent critics of Islam could also be stopped?

I think there is always going to be a trade-off/balance when trying to limit free speech.
TIMDOT
TIMDOT avatar

862 posts since 6/8/14

posted 2 Nov 2016 17:53, edited 2 Nov 2016 17:53
Crackajack wrote: isn't it necessary that to some extent critics of Islam could also be stopped?
The big critics of Islam have built there careers and been made famous by post 9/11 hysteria in the right wing media. The more arrogant they become, the more hateful, the more money they get.
The contradiction for them is; the ideas the media proliferates have no effect (even pro-war, pro-intervention etc…), but Islam's ideas are a threat to western civilisation.

Critiques of the conditions that create these ideas makes more sense than just critiquing ideas.

@Shame
The video was just fucking dumb. There were no ideas being mocked, only their practises. The next logical step is to disagree with their practises. Then what?
TIMDOT
TIMDOT avatar

862 posts since 6/8/14

2 Nov 2016 18:56
TIMDOT wrote: The more arrogant they become, the more hateful, the more money they get.
Not everyone is Hitchen's's. Bit OTT.
MLI
MLI avatar

4360 posts since 6/10/09

posted 4 Nov 2016 09:05, edited 4 Nov 2016 09:05
TIMDOT wrote: @Shame
The video was just fucking dumb. There were no ideas being mocked, only their practises. The next logical step is to disagree with their practises. Then what?

Who gives a shit? Christians get mocked all day every day but they don't start murdering people becuase of it.

I'm not a Christian and think they're deluded but have respect for them. Why can't I think the same about Islam? Actually I don't even give two shits or think about Islam 99% of the time . But I can't criticise it or mock it? Why not? People mock me all the time. They mock everything. Except Islam. WHY NOT ISLAM? Are Muslims that weak and sensitive like little girls?
TIMDOT
TIMDOT avatar

862 posts since 6/8/14

posted 4 Nov 2016 10:36, edited 4 Nov 2016 10:36
MLI wrote: Who gives a shit? Christians get mocked all day every day but they don't start murdering people becuase of it.

I'm not a Christian and think they're deluded but have respect for them. Why can't I think the same about Islam? Actually I don't even give two shits or think about Islam 99% of the time . But I can't criticise it or mock it? Why not? People mock me all the time. They mock everything. Except Islam. WHY NOT ISLAM? Are Muslims that weak and sensitive like little girls?

What about christian terrorists? Mass shootings? It may appear that everything falls in it's rightful place and that's how it should be. But we live in such an unequal world where the media has a strong anti-islam narrative. What you say mockingly can promote this inequality.

Critics can be, for example, an imam, a priest and a rabbi sitting around a table or a millionaire on fox news saying "the infidels are here get ur guns n ammo!". The difference between the two is that one is an open discussion albeit a dead-end one while the other is spoken as the gospel by someone that makes bank off of it. Like I said, critiquing the conditions that create (edit: extremist) ideas makes more sense.

So when I asked "Then what?" look at the Netherlands. Geert Wilders, whose party won 10% of the vote there in 2012, is on trial for inciting racial hatred and his party's manifesto promises to close every mosque in the country in the run up for their 2017 election.
shame
shame avatar

1705 posts since 17/7/12

4 Nov 2016 11:10
the world isn't one big liberal art college campus tim Cry
TIMDOT
TIMDOT avatar

862 posts since 6/8/14

posted 4 Nov 2016 15:56, edited 4 Nov 2016 15:56
Phew, white hot wit.
I got into politics through trade union stuff. Student politics can be immature.

BTW. I win.

Edit:"critiquing the conditions that create extremist ideas makes more sense."
I think the film Four Lions does this. It also clearly separates the extremist Muslims from the conservative ones.
MLI
MLI avatar

4360 posts since 6/10/09

5 Nov 2016 08:56
TIMDOT wrote:
MLI wrote: Who gives a shit? Christians get mocked all day every day but they don't start murdering people becuase of it.

I'm not a Christian and think they're deluded but have respect for them. Why can't I think the same about Islam? Actually I don't even give two shits or think about Islam 99% of the time . But I can't criticise it or mock it? Why not? People mock me all the time. They mock everything. Except Islam. WHY NOT ISLAM? Are Muslims that weak and sensitive like little girls?

What about christian terrorists? Mass shootings? It may appear that everything falls in it's rightful place and that's how it should be. But we live in such an unequal world where the media has a strong anti-islam narrative. What you say mockingly can promote this inequality.

Critics can be, for example, an imam, a priest and a rabbi sitting around a table or a millionaire on fox news saying "the infidels are here get ur guns n ammo!". The difference between the two is that one is an open discussion albeit a dead-end one while the other is spoken as the gospel by someone that makes bank off of it. Like I said, critiquing the conditions that create (edit: extremist) ideas makes more sense.

So when I asked "Then what?" look at the Netherlands. Geert Wilders, whose party won 10% of the vote there in 2012, is on trial for inciting racial hatred and his party's manifesto promises to close every mosque in the country in the run up for their 2017 election.

The thing I respect about you is you never make it personal. A lot of hard left neo-communists like yourself start throwing personal insults as soon as they're challenged. At least you keep it to your argument.

Christian terrorists? What in Ireland in the '80s and Sri Lanka in the '90s? Pretty sure they didn't carry out attacks because their feelings were hurt too..

padawan
padawan avatar

4027 posts since 27/6/03

posted 5 Nov 2016 11:18, edited 5 Nov 2016 11:18

Two show ponies - Truly can't stand 'Yonce.
Superprecise
Superprecise avatar

2056 posts since 16/7/11

5 Nov 2016 12:23
why am i not surprised
DuffMan
DuffMan avatar

14255 posts since 21/2/07

5 Nov 2016 15:48
Pad you've got problems man
padawan
padawan avatar

4027 posts since 27/6/03

5 Nov 2016 15:54
wha?
-DiscoTits-
-DiscoTits- avatar

689 posts since 26/11/07

6 Nov 2016 07:17
You wonder how much money the clinton camp gave them to do that. Seems so forced.
carl lewis
carl lewis avatar

23626 posts since 14/10/04

6 Nov 2016 08:50
Donald Trump is rushed off stage by Secret Service agents at rally in Nevada - the guardian
https://apple.news/A_RMkxKnjQmiFdtcgPq72XQ