General Discussion: random news stories


Show original post
morning mist
morning mist avatar

3693 posts since 29/5/05

10 Mar 2021 14:14
quest wrote: dunno if you’re from uk, but public school means private school

Oops
swiftus
swiftus avatar

1871 posts since 1/7/09

10 Mar 2021 16:41
YLAup wrote:
swiftus wrote: On the meritocracy point, get rid of public schools.

Says everyone who didn't go to one

No shit Sherlock.
swiftus
swiftus avatar

1871 posts since 1/7/09

11 Mar 2021 10:43
snaye wrote: This is a good book on the modern fallacy of Meritocracy for anyone interested.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Meritocracy-Trap-Foundational-Inequality-Dismantles/dp/0735221995

Sounds like a good book. Trying to decide on what to read next, this or….

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tyranny-Merit-Whats-Become-Common/dp/0241407591/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords;=Meritocracy&qid;=1615459605&s;=books&sr;=1-2
R
R avatar

13339 posts since 17/5/03

11 Mar 2021 13:52
I love communism
morning mist
morning mist avatar

3693 posts since 29/5/05

11 Mar 2021 14:01
we can get past the polarization, we just get rid of the right-wing/conservatives by making them obsolet

easy solution
swiftus
swiftus avatar

1871 posts since 1/7/09

11 Mar 2021 14:32
R wrote: I love communism

I love when people throw out tired tropes that label anyone that doesn't agree with them as either 'communist' or 'far right'.

Heaven fucking forbid there is a middle ground in any type of discussion these days.
RickRude
RickRude avatar

4196 posts since 13/1/12

11 Mar 2021 14:37
swiftus wrote:
R wrote: I love communism

I love when people throw out tired tropes that label anyone that doesn't agree with them as either 'communist' or 'far right'.

Heaven fucking forbid there is a middle ground in any type of discussion these days.

Tell Swede that please
R
R avatar

13339 posts since 17/5/03

11 Mar 2021 15:17
swiftus wrote:
R wrote: I love communism

I love when people throw out tired tropes that label anyone that doesn't agree with them as either 'communist' or 'far right'.

Heaven fucking forbid there is a middle ground in any type of discussion these days.

so working hard and becoming financially successful in order to support your family and future generations is pointless. that is basically the ethos of the last page.
R
R avatar

13339 posts since 17/5/03

11 Mar 2021 15:21
I agree with high quality education for all, obviously. do everything you can to educate etc, but in all facets of life pretty much money can accelerate/improve upon services provided publicly. that will not change.
morning mist
morning mist avatar

3693 posts since 29/5/05

11 Mar 2021 15:30
your understanding of left-wing politics is Sad
andymakesglasses
andymakesglasses avatar

20740 posts since 26/1/06

11 Mar 2021 15:31
swiftus wrote: Heaven fucking forbid there is a middle ground in any type of discussion these days.

Don't be ridiculous. R's probably never even heard of state monopoly capitalism.
swiftus
swiftus avatar

1871 posts since 1/7/09

posted 11 Mar 2021 15:32, edited 11 Mar 2021 15:32
R wrote:
swiftus wrote:
R wrote: I love communism

I love when people throw out tired tropes that label anyone that doesn't agree with them as either 'communist' or 'far right'.

Heaven fucking forbid there is a middle ground in any type of discussion these days.

so working hard and becoming financially successful in order to support your family and future generations is pointless. that is basically the ethos of the last page.

How will the abolishment of public schools stop anyone from being able to 'support your family and future generations'?

"You mean my kids will have to go the same school as those kids? Disgusting!"

R wrote: …in all facets of life pretty much money can accelerate/improve upon services provided publicly. that will not change.

Agreed. So how do we go about funding better education to the poorest in society? Because, like you said, high quality education for all, right?
R
R avatar

13339 posts since 17/5/03

11 Mar 2021 15:40
I think you're reading the wrong way around to the former.

On the latter, more efficient and greater public spending? taxation can't be pushed too much further on both a corporate and personal basis IMO. even more so with current events.
Rez
Rez avatar

8989 posts since 5/4/09

11 Mar 2021 15:41

MerciBeau
MerciBeau avatar

4435 posts since 7/7/06

11 Mar 2021 15:58
Why abolish public schools? Just make them compelled to have say, 25% of their intake from more ordinary backgrounds on scholarships/bursaries… Giving smart kids from poor backgrounds access to better quality education would be great.

I went to a bottom 10% Ofsted ranking utter shithole of a state school - and the overwhelming majority of the kids there were indeed thick, but there was also a significant minority who were loads smarter than the kind of privately educated kids I went on to encounter at uni and in my career yet they never managed to realise their ability cos the thick kids dragged them down.
Rez
Rez avatar

8989 posts since 5/4/09

posted 11 Mar 2021 16:12, edited 11 Mar 2021 16:12
15% of children at private schools are already on scholarships/bursaries since the 1980s. Less than 10% of children in the UK go to private school.

Even increasing it to 25% would do very little to address any of the issues you've brought up.
snaye
snaye avatar

11109 posts since 24/10/02

posted 11 Mar 2021 16:13, edited 11 Mar 2021 16:13
Love the a
R wrote:
swiftus wrote:
R wrote: I love communism

I love when people throw out tired tropes that label anyone that doesn't agree with them as either 'communist' or 'far right'.

Heaven fucking forbid there is a middle ground in any type of discussion these days.

so working hard and becoming financially successful in order to support your family and future generations is pointless. that is basically the ethos of the last page.

You have completely missed the point. No one is saying don't work hard and provide for your family, what people are challenging is the myth that a 'true' meritocracy exists.

Here is a thought, rather than be close minded why not read that book and challenge your own view point. Do some critical thinking.
swiftus
swiftus avatar

1871 posts since 1/7/09

posted 11 Mar 2021 16:20, edited 11 Mar 2021 16:20
MerciBeau wrote: Why abolish public schools? Just make them compelled to have say, 25% of their intake from more ordinary backgrounds on scholarships/bursaries… Giving smart kids from poor backgrounds access to better quality education would be great.

This doesn't solve anything. Just gives a leg up to a tiny minority of kids lucky enough to go a public school. What about the kids from poor backgrounds that don't make the cut? Unlucky for them.

Also, defining 'ordinary backgrounds' is near impossible itself? The more savvy rich will find loopholes in the system to define themselves as 'ordinary'. Just look at a country which has rules like this which are known to all to be a joke.

"I am a company director of a £10m+ turnover business. I pay myself £8k a year. I'm not rich, I'm ordinary"

MerciBeau wrote: I went to a bottom 10% Ofsted ranking utter shithole of a state school - and the overwhelming majority of the kids there were indeed thick, but there was also a significant minority who were loads smarter than the kind of privately educated kids I went on to encounter at uni and in my career yet they never managed to realise their ability cos the thick kids dragged them down.

Just give up on the thick kids. Fuck 'em. Ever wonder cause vs effect? What if these kids are 'thick' because of shit teachers that can't be arsed teaching them and give up on them? Do we expect all kids to come into school and be smart as shit from the get go?

I've worked in a professional corporate environment, and the smarter, state school-educated kids are consistently outperformed (rising up the ranks) by their public school counterparts. Largely because of soft skills (e.g. they knew how to speak to their seniors) that the state school kids were never taught. In all careers (apart from those which require massive technical knowledge), these soft skills will help climb the ladder much more than book smarts.

Also, I will never understand this argument:

"I managed to make it despite my against-all-odds upbringing. Why can't everyone do it too?"

EDIT: the country with the quota is India
EDIT: I went to a grammar school
RickRude
RickRude avatar

4196 posts since 13/1/12

11 Mar 2021 16:43
do you have kids Swiftus? not a dig just intrigued. I agree with what you are saying btw - but don't think abolishing public schools is a solution. Socioeconomic status and education is intriguing. My old company - the boss only wanted to hire people from Russell Group Universities - made me cringe.
swiftus
swiftus avatar

1871 posts since 1/7/09

11 Mar 2021 17:18
RickRude wrote: do you have kids Swiftus? not a dig just intrigued. I agree with what you are saying btw - but don't think abolishing public schools is a solution. Socioeconomic status and education is intriguing. My old company - the boss only wanted to hire people from Russell Group Universities - made me cringe.

No kids. I don't begrudge anyone sending their kids to private schools. If you had the means to legally set up your kids for success in life, why wouldn't you do it?

I see it the same as tax avoidance; just because it's there and technically open to everyone (although only a few have the means to take advantage of it), doesn't mean it's right or good for society.