General Discussion: random news stories


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R
R avatar

13339 posts since 17/5/03

11 Mar 2021 17:31
snaye wrote: Love the a
R wrote:
swiftus wrote:
R wrote: I love communism

I love when people throw out tired tropes that label anyone that doesn't agree with them as either 'communist' or 'far right'.

Heaven fucking forbid there is a middle ground in any type of discussion these days.

so working hard and becoming financially successful in order to support your family and future generations is pointless. that is basically the ethos of the last page.

You have completely missed the point. No one is saying don't work hard and provide for your family, what people are challenging is the myth that a 'true' meritocracy exists.

Here is a thought, rather than be close minded why not read that book and challenge your own view point. Do some critical thinking.

because I don't agree with you I'm close minded?
snaye
snaye avatar

11109 posts since 24/10/02

posted 11 Mar 2021 17:39, edited 11 Mar 2021 17:39
Again you have totally missed this point, you surely are not that thick.

I have't even put forward an argument or stated what my belief/opinion is and you automatically think we disagree.

I simply referenced a book/podcast that challenges the concept of meritocracy. You obviously are close minded because you have arrived at an opinion/point of view and seem unwilling to challenge it.

R
R avatar

13339 posts since 17/5/03

11 Mar 2021 17:40
I wasn't even referencing that. thank you, though.
MerciBeau
MerciBeau avatar

4435 posts since 7/7/06

11 Mar 2021 17:42
swiftus wrote:
MerciBeau wrote: Why abolish public schools? Just make them compelled to have say, 25% of their intake from more ordinary backgrounds on scholarships/bursaries… Giving smart kids from poor backgrounds access to better quality education would be great.

This doesn't solve anything. Just gives a leg up to a tiny minority of kids lucky enough to go a public school. What about the kids from poor backgrounds that don't make the cut? Unlucky for them.

Also, defining 'ordinary backgrounds' is near impossible itself? The more savvy rich will find loopholes in the system to define themselves as 'ordinary'. Just look at a country which has rules like this which are known to all to be a joke.

"I am a company director of a £10m+ turnover business. I pay myself £8k a year. I'm not rich, I'm ordinary"

MerciBeau wrote: I went to a bottom 10% Ofsted ranking utter shithole of a state school - and the overwhelming majority of the kids there were indeed thick, but there was also a significant minority who were loads smarter than the kind of privately educated kids I went on to encounter at uni and in my career yet they never managed to realise their ability cos the thick kids dragged them down.

Just give up on the thick kids. Fuck 'em. Ever wonder cause vs effect? What if these kids are 'thick' because of shit teachers that can't be arsed teaching them and give up on them? Do we expect all kids to come into school and be smart as shit from the get go?

I've worked in a professional corporate environment, and the smarter, state school-educated kids are consistently outperformed (rising up the ranks) by their public school counterparts. Largely because of soft skills (e.g. they knew how to speak to their seniors) that the state school kids were never taught. In all careers (apart from those which require massive technical knowledge), these soft skills will help climb the ladder much more than book smarts.

Also, I will never understand this argument:

"I managed to make it despite my against-all-odds upbringing. Why can't everyone do it too?"

EDIT: the country with the quota is India
EDIT: I went to a grammar school

Bringing back Grammar schools also an excellent idea.

bertoni
bertoni avatar

1506 posts since 29/9/11

posted 11 Mar 2021 17:46, edited 11 Mar 2021 17:46
Nowhere can seriously claim to be a meritocracy. That is simply an ideal put forward by those born lucky. "I deserve to be where I am because i'm talented, intelligent, beautiful, somehow superieur to those who don't make it ", ignoring completely the social conditions into which they are born. By the same token the lower classes deserve to be where they are due to laziness, stupidity etc. Social mobility is pretty rare. Check out any sociological study on the subject. Born upper class, die upper class and so on.
snaye
snaye avatar

11109 posts since 24/10/02

posted 11 Mar 2021 17:47, edited 11 Mar 2021 17:47
R wrote: I wasn't even referencing that. thank you, though.

Fair enough, however you certainly seem to refer to the past page which specifically discuss's 'Meritocracy'. I would recommend reading the book or at least listening to that podcast as it refers directly to education issue thats being discussed.

Not wanting to start any beef fyi, just think you might benefit from challenging your world view.

R
R avatar

13339 posts since 17/5/03

11 Mar 2021 19:29
Was talking about school system as opposed to meritocracy.

It's a difficult one, of course an equal start sounds great (although unachievable), but also why slog away for your whole life, trying to make money for your family, if you can't give them something of a head start? I appreciate it isn't 'fair'.
stoney
stoney avatar

17816 posts since 22/1/05

11 Mar 2021 19:52
Having a bit about yourself is more important that a good school IMO.
swiftus
swiftus avatar

1871 posts since 1/7/09

11 Mar 2021 20:24
R wrote: Was talking about school system as opposed to meritocracy.

It's a difficult one, of course an equal start sounds great (although unachievable), but also why slog away for your whole life, trying to make money for your family, if you can't give them something of a head start? I appreciate it isn't 'fair'.

Isn't £££ in the bank head start enough? A trust fund, university fees paid for, holidays, etc.?

This is what people mean when they say the rich are greedy and do not know the definition of 'enough'.
Rez
Rez avatar

8989 posts since 5/4/09

11 Mar 2021 20:41
Something really depressing about the implication that if you don't have enough £££ for your kid to go private, it's cause you didn't work hard enough or want to give your kid the best.
R
R avatar

13339 posts since 17/5/03

11 Mar 2021 21:29
Rez wrote: Something really depressing about the implication that if you don't have enough £££ for your kid to go private, it's cause you didn't work hard enough or want to give your kid the best.

complete bollocks here
R
R avatar

13339 posts since 17/5/03

11 Mar 2021 21:30
swiftus wrote:
R wrote: Was talking about school system as opposed to meritocracy.

It's a difficult one, of course an equal start sounds great (although unachievable), but also why slog away for your whole life, trying to make money for your family, if you can't give them something of a head start? I appreciate it isn't 'fair'.

Isn't £££ in the bank head start enough? A trust fund, university fees paid for, holidays, etc.?

This is what people mean when they say the rich are greedy and do not know the definition of 'enough'.

you're really jumping to extremes. and wtf do holidays gave to do with this.
stoney
stoney avatar

17816 posts since 22/1/05

11 Mar 2021 21:32
*have
swiftus
swiftus avatar

1871 posts since 1/7/09

11 Mar 2021 21:45
R wrote:
swiftus wrote:
R wrote: Was talking about school system as opposed to meritocracy.

It's a difficult one, of course an equal start sounds great (although unachievable), but also why slog away for your whole life, trying to make money for your family, if you can't give them something of a head start? I appreciate it isn't 'fair'.

Isn't £££ in the bank head start enough? A trust fund, university fees paid for, holidays, etc.?

This is what people mean when they say the rich are greedy and do not know the definition of 'enough'.

you're really jumping to extremes. and wtf do holidays gave to do with this.

Holidays abroad
Rez
Rez avatar

8989 posts since 5/4/09

11 Mar 2021 21:48
Some kids don't even get to go skiing, fancy that
R
R avatar

13339 posts since 17/5/03

11 Mar 2021 21:58
Rez wrote: Some kids don't even get to go skiing, fancy that


make some stupid comment with no foundation - had even worded my message so it couldn't be construed in that way…and then another.
Rez
Rez avatar

8989 posts since 5/4/09

11 Mar 2021 22:18
???
swiftus
swiftus avatar

1871 posts since 1/7/09

11 Mar 2021 22:22
R wrote:
swiftus wrote:
R wrote: Was talking about school system as opposed to meritocracy.

It's a difficult one, of course an equal start sounds great (although unachievable), but also why slog away for your whole life, trying to make money for your family, if you can't give them something of a head start? I appreciate it isn't 'fair'.

Isn't £££ in the bank head start enough? A trust fund, university fees paid for, holidays, etc.?

This is what people mean when they say the rich are greedy and do not know the definition of 'enough'.

you're really jumping to extremes. and wtf do holidays gave to do with this.

Holidays abroad
R wrote:
Rez wrote: Some kids don't even get to go skiing, fancy that


make some stupid comment with no foundation - had even worded my message so it couldn't be construed in that way…and then another.

Literally no idea what you're talking about.

You think poor kids go on holiday abroad?
Crackajack
Crackajack avatar

8199 posts since 21/4/05

posted 11 Mar 2021 22:27, edited 11 Mar 2021 22:27
Socio-economic / 'class' discrimination is real, and actually people are starting to recognise it and start to think about it in a similar way to other sources of discrimination (of course addressing it can be a way to address types of discrimination).

In the UK it's such a taboo / unspoken code but it's everywhere. Like when people are open about sending kids to private school for the connections gained by their children, or even themselves with other parents / PTA etc.
R
R avatar

13339 posts since 17/5/03

11 Mar 2021 22:31
swiftus wrote:
R wrote:
swiftus wrote:
R wrote: Was talking about school system as opposed to meritocracy.

It's a difficult one, of course an equal start sounds great (although unachievable), but also why slog away for your whole life, trying to make money for your family, if you can't give them something of a head start? I appreciate it isn't 'fair'.

Isn't £££ in the bank head start enough? A trust fund, university fees paid for, holidays, etc.?

This is what people mean when they say the rich are greedy and do not know the definition of 'enough'.

you're really jumping to extremes. and wtf do holidays gave to do with this.

Holidays abroad
R wrote:
Rez wrote: Some kids don't even get to go skiing, fancy that


make some stupid comment with no foundation - had even worded my message so it couldn't be construed in that way…and then another.

Literally no idea what you're talking about.

You think poor kids go on holiday abroad?

wtf do holidays have to do with anything?

rez trying to find something that was never there to tailor the narrative.