General Discussion: Religion thread


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nick2
nick2 avatar

7231 posts since 18/2/09

3 Apr 2010 12:50
eliotness wrote: i didn't say any where in there that it's a bad thing

I didn't say you did, I'm not interpreting what you've posted, I'm commenting on it, I agree with it.

eliotness
eliotness avatar

1506 posts since 1/2/09

3 Apr 2010 12:58
ok.
Guido
Guido avatar

12884 posts since 20/4/05

3 Apr 2010 16:35
eliotness wrote: guido,
Granted it's not on the same scale as believing in an all powerful being that cannot be proved (or disproved for that matter), but science is quickly becoming a type of "religion" and i believe that it will completely replace religion as peoples source of inspiration, reassurance and guidance in this centuary.

With that in mind, how much do you really know about current scientific theories guido?

how confident are you that they are correct and wont be disproven, even within the next year?

Do you not see the hypocrisy in calling all religious followers brainwashed idiots for beleiving something that can be questioned so easily?

Granted scientific ideas can be proven (or at least convincingly theorised), but in reality it is only to an extent. They can rarely ever be completely proven as fact. It still doesn't hide the fact that you are beleiving something essentially untrue (although YES a lot less untrue than religion).

I don't want my original point to become lost in all the other points and the general change in direction of this thread. You are in fact ignorant and in some respects a hypocrite for saying all religious followers are brainwashed idiots.

what's your religion of choice? Just so I know how brainwashed you are. You talk untold shit it has to be said. I suspect you were touched up by a priest as a kid.
eliotness
eliotness avatar

1506 posts since 1/2/09

3 Apr 2010 16:45
Dont resort to petty insults.

I have said twice already, i am non-religious.

I just disagreed strongly with what you said.
Guido
Guido avatar

12884 posts since 20/4/05

3 Apr 2010 16:50
I cant be bothered to pick apart the crap you're coming out with. Science is about understanding the world and universe. Nobody said it's 100% correct. It's what we know to the best of our ability based on evidence and theories. Religion is based on nothing but hearsay. I could say you're a cunt but it doesn't make it true.
eliotness
eliotness avatar

1506 posts since 1/2/09

3 Apr 2010 17:13
for the last time, the only thing I am linking between religion and science is the believing and faith in the unknown and un proven.

it is obvious that scientific theory has masses more grounding than religious, nobody in their right mind would argue against that.

however, they both involve placing faith and trust in things we ourselves are unsure of.

all of this is just a side track from what I was initially getting at, you are a tit for claiming all people who have a religion are "brainwashed idiots".
vip
vip avatar

3970 posts since 27/3/06

3 Apr 2010 17:36
NIKKI B!!!!!!!
eliotness
eliotness avatar

1506 posts since 1/2/09

3 Apr 2010 17:41
Laughing out loud
bill
bill avatar

4931 posts since 5/8/09

3 Apr 2010 17:57
eliotness wrote: it is obvious that scientific theory has masses more grounding than religious, nobody in their right mind would argue against that.

Wouldn't be so sure about that…

Foxtrot wrote: Scientists believe that science is a more plausible alternative to religion. That simply isn' t true.

Puzzled

eliotness wrote: however, they both involve placing faith and trust in things we ourselves are unsure of.

No, they don't. Science has EVIDENCE to back it up. The earth is round, I ain't seen it myself from a distance so I can't prove it to you right here but there's mountains of evidence to prove it really is round. No faith is required.

Religion, of whatever flavour, demands you take a giant leap of blind faith and simply accept what it is you're told as the truth without one single shred of evidence to back up the fairy tale bullshit. In the case of Christianity, if you don't jump of board you're destined for the fires of hell. Kinda important that little caveat in getting people to conform, that and the promise of heaven.

Religion tries to explain everything but actually explains nothing.

And my point about the earth's 4.5 billion year old age is that modern religions have existed for 0.0004% of the earths life. What makes you think some dudes can plod along a few thousand years ago and and tell the story of what exactly went down before with a bunch of supernatural fairytales?

Biggest joke of all time and so clever at the same time because you no-one can prove a negative, therefore the debate is never ending and people will always believe.

swiftus
swiftus avatar

1829 posts since 1/7/09

4 Apr 2010 19:06
It makes me laugh to see the extent to which non-believers try to convince everyone they can that religion doesn't exist.

Then they complain about people who try to convert others to a particular religious point of view.

Can't people just accept that every human is unique, and has their own opinion? All these, "I'm smart, you're stupid" comments are just coming from those trying to assert their superiority.

Some of the most extraordinary scientists that ever lived (Copernicus, Newton, Planck, Einstein) convey a belief in a higher power, so unless you happen to be smarter than these guys, shut the fuck up.
InWonderland
InWonderland avatar

2662 posts since 8/2/07

4 Apr 2010 19:46
So, all you guys were working on friday and not having any easter eggs this weekend or celebrate christmas?
Guido
Guido avatar

12884 posts since 20/4/05

4 Apr 2010 19:52
Roll Eyes
Serbia
Serbia avatar

4932 posts since 22/3/06

4 Apr 2010 20:22
Farrell wrote:
bresone wrote:
Farrell wrote: dude just because you quote something doesn't make it right. Use your own words. Can you possibly accept the idea that I'm not brainwashed and intelligent enough to evaluate things myself? Or is my belief now proof beyond anything else that I'm stupid?

Troll in my distilling of christianity I've gotten that the idea is that repentance of sins is the key to heaven. In my opinion that isn't reliant on belief, just the will not to be a cunt all the time and the realisation of a bigger picture (and I don't mean one that has to include god). But I don't know.

I might as well add that dogma isn't my strong suit, I don't know that any strain of religion completely fits with how I feel god.

Laughing out loud Why use my own words when Dennet, Dawkins et al… some of the greatest Minds of our lifetime argue against any form of religion so beautifully and concisely. I simply dont feel i need to add anyhting else to it.

I feel (and i think you might agree) based on the last sentence of your last post, your personal feeling of a "a god" doesnt fit in with traditional Christian Theology. Maybe it might be worth delving in a to Dawkins book.


It's lazy, and a bit disrespectful to someone you're engaging with to just meet them with a borrowed quip. If I were better read maybe we could just trade quotes of Dawkins and Pascal (and the rest) all day. I think that my feeling may or may not fit with christianity, and the symbolism used in it, though I doubt it will fit with all of the dogma. That may be arrogance on my part or just staying true to my belief/feeling - I'd rather stick to the second. I haven't got anything against richard dawkins at the moment, especially his work on evolution (I'm not a creationist).

Is there an underlying suggestion to your post though?

yep.

If you can appreciate the theory of Evolution i think you'd get a lot out of the following book.The whole rationale for the book is based around an understanding of Evolution.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/The-God-Delusion-by-Richard-Dawkins_W0QQitemZ130379695978QQcmdZViewItemQQptZFiction?hash=item1e5b3c476a
EVERS
EVERS avatar

8580 posts since 2/7/06

4 Apr 2010 20:28
InWonderland wrote: So, all you guys were working on friday and not having any easter eggs this weekend or celebrate christmas?

the holidays have long ceased to have any religious meaning to a majority of folk in England. there all just holidays.

i hate the hypocrisy of xmas especially but nobody actually thinks of it as a religious thing anymore, its just another excuse for a piss up and to exchange shit that nobody wants or needs. few people question this as its simply hardwired into the culture.
Dasein
Dasein avatar

1428 posts since 1/11/09

4 Apr 2010 20:31
bresone wrote:
Farrell wrote:
bresone wrote:
Farrell wrote: dude just because you quote something doesn't make it right. Use your own words. Can you possibly accept the idea that I'm not brainwashed and intelligent enough to evaluate things myself? Or is my belief now proof beyond anything else that I'm stupid?

Troll in my distilling of christianity I've gotten that the idea is that repentance of sins is the key to heaven. In my opinion that isn't reliant on belief, just the will not to be a cunt all the time and the realisation of a bigger picture (and I don't mean one that has to include god). But I don't know.

I might as well add that dogma isn't my strong suit, I don't know that any strain of religion completely fits with how I feel god.

Laughing out loud Why use my own words when Dennet, Dawkins et al… some of the greatest Minds of our lifetime argue against any form of religion so beautifully and concisely. I simply dont feel i need to add anyhting else to it.

I feel (and i think you might agree) based on the last sentence of your last post, your personal feeling of a "a god" doesnt fit in with traditional Christian Theology. Maybe it might be worth delving in a to Dawkins book.


It's lazy, and a bit disrespectful to someone you're engaging with to just meet them with a borrowed quip. If I were better read maybe we could just trade quotes of Dawkins and Pascal (and the rest) all day. I think that my feeling may or may not fit with christianity, and the symbolism used in it, though I doubt it will fit with all of the dogma. That may be arrogance on my part or just staying true to my belief/feeling - I'd rather stick to the second. I haven't got anything against richard dawkins at the moment, especially his work on evolution (I'm not a creationist).

Is there an underlying suggestion to your post though?

yep.

If you can appreciate the theory of Evolution i think you'd get a lot out of the following book.The whole rationale for the book is based around an understanding of Evolution.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/The-God-Delusion-by-Richard-Dawkins_W0QQitemZ130379695978QQcmdZViewItemQQptZFiction?hash=item1e5b3c476a

i think it works out cheaper if you buy a copy from amazon, under the 'USED' section.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/God-Delusion-Richard-Dawkins/dp/0593055489
Serbia
Serbia avatar

4932 posts since 22/3/06

4 Apr 2010 20:34
andymakesglasses wrote: There's plenty of evidence for fairies at the bottom of the garden, most of it dubious Laughing out loud

If you take the position of agnosticism with fairies, then why not with gods?

exactly!

As Daniel Dennet Put's it:

I can't prove that mushrooms could not be intergalactic spaceships spying on us.

But the point of Science is evidence based understanding and most people (not all!) would agree mushrooms arent spy crafts from another world. And as Dawkins puts it:

We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.

So if your agnostic about a Christain, Muslim God etc… and you deffo want to go to heavan, might be wise to cover all your bases and say a few prayers to Thor, and make a couple of sacrifices to Zeus!
fontelroy
fontelroy avatar

3200 posts since 14/6/08

4 Apr 2010 20:35
xmas was just a christian adaptation of a pagan holiday so the celebrating holidays is a bit of a weak argument as they have always evolved
EVERS
EVERS avatar

8580 posts since 2/7/06

4 Apr 2010 20:45
swiftus wrote: It makes me laugh to see the extent to which non-believers try to convince everyone they can that religion doesn't exist.

Then they complain about people who try to convert others to a particular religious point of view.

Can't people just accept that every human is unique, and has their own opinion? All these, "I'm smart, you're stupid" comments are just coming from those trying to assert their superiority.

Some of the most extraordinary scientists that ever lived (Copernicus, Newton, Planck, Einstein) convey a belief in a higher power, so unless you happen to be smarter than these guys, shut the fuck up.

you "shut the fuck up". these scientists were bought up in an age before contemporary thinking and modern technology was available.

in todays world you would have to be a maniac if you fail to understand the complete irrationality of organised religion.

the 'problem' with some religious folk is that their wretched belief and loyalty gives them a sense of entitlement which so governs their minds (much like any organist elitist group), that they are unable to take or keep a perspective on reality.
EVERS
EVERS avatar

8580 posts since 2/7/06

4 Apr 2010 20:53
fontelroy wrote: xmas was just a christian adaptation of a pagan holiday so the celebrating holidays is a bit of a weak argument as they have always evolved

evolved to what? getting pissed and buying shite?

what's that got to do with religious stuff?

i'd rather the hypocrisy of it all ended but everyone would moan about not having a tree and shit.

christmas and easter etc have no religious meaning to 95% of the population of the UK imo but we just get on with it as its a cultural norm.
fontelroy
fontelroy avatar

3200 posts since 14/6/08

4 Apr 2010 20:56
my point is that time of year has always been the celebration of something - and the new order change what it is a celebration of - from pagan fertility to christian thanksgiving to a more modern commercial idea of presents and stuff.

so non christains celebrating christmas isnt really hypocritical