General Discussion: Religion thread


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Guido
Guido avatar

12884 posts since 20/4/05

5 Apr 2010 01:01
Farrell wrote: @Guido - It is a part of life, it's my beliefs and though it does affect how i live my life i don't think many people would call my lifestyle overtly christian Laughing out loud and I don't think it has to

I think it'd be a sin to throw away the gift of this life by not seeking experience and living it as full as you (reasonably) can. And the human race will die out and something else will take our place. fuck there may well be other life out there in the universe (please please please can we not have a thread like this about aliens Laughing out loud)

Are we finally at a live and let live stage? Or am i really just being naive? (just seen the above, maybe not it seems)

A sin? so you think that enjoying life is only something religion is teaching you to do and exclusive to your religion? Do you think people can not figure it out that being a good person and enjoying life can be done in a void without religion? That simple sentence from you shows how you're brainwashed or clinging to the belief system that has been given or forced on you.

I would love to know what led you to this way of thinking because there is clearly something that is made your weak mind susceptible to accepting these teachings
Serbia
Serbia avatar

4932 posts since 22/3/06

5 Apr 2010 01:04
Farrell wrote: bresone do you want to explain that quote? I don't really get the no-contest bit (and that isn't me having a pop)

I face science everyday. Which am I?

I think that's a question you need to ask yourself and answer that.

My interpreation of the no contest part is in reference to some religious people who dont really understand the issue or Logic. E.g You cant proove God doesnt exist, therefore he exists.
Guido
Guido avatar

12884 posts since 20/4/05

5 Apr 2010 01:06
Foxtrot wrote: Guido your loathing of religion is almost farcical. For you to hold such contempt for 'religion', besides the point of respect overpowers your argument and adds fuel to the narrow-mindedness of your opinion.

I sometimes think that the contempt in people like you is a foil for a deep seated hidden discomfort in the fact that you just might be might be wrong.

I use 'people like you' to refer to those who hardened their hearts in spite of the absence of conclusively compelling scientific evidence to the slightlest possibility of 'the grand perhaps'

We're told we should accept religion and make allowances for it. Why? It's all false as I see it and the pope telling people that using a condom is a sin in areas where AIDS is rife is to me as bad as somebody flying a plane full of people into a building. The sentiment and brainwashing behind it is exactly the same. that's a horrible thing to face but it's a truth to me.

Religion is a tool created by man to control man and prays on our fallibilities and weakness as mortal beings aware of our own ultimate demise.

I personally think those who can accept that and live a productive life are the strongest people alive.
ejike10
ejike10 avatar

117 posts since 17/2/09

5 Apr 2010 01:07
Guido wrote: science isn't a belief. It's a seeking of knowledge. Don't make it out to be more than it is.

philosophy of knowledge - in order for someone to know something: x is true, person y has to believe x is true, person y is justified in believing x is true.

you saying science isnt a belief is utter nonsense guido, everything that one "knows" is a belief. i assume that you not answering the question of brainwashing that you realise not all people who hold "religious" beliefs are actually brainwashed
stelfox
stelfox avatar

8488 posts since 11/3/09

5 Apr 2010 01:07
Oh ffs guido no i don't think it's something only religion can teach you to do, you can not seriously think i believe that people who do not believe do not have the urge or feel the need to enjoy life. Some credit man. I was agreeing with a sentiment i thought you were expressing - to enjoy life, and saying it fitted in with my beliefs, becuase it does seem that some people's religious beliefs limit them and keep them from enjoying life.

bresone i honestly don't feel that I fit into any of those three.
Guido
Guido avatar

12884 posts since 20/4/05

5 Apr 2010 01:08
Farrell wrote: Oh ffs guido no i don't think it's something only religion can teach you to do, you can not seriously think i believe that people who do not believe do not have the urge or feel the need to enjoy life. Some credit man. I was agreeing with a sentiment i thought you were expressing - to enjoy life, and saying it fitted in with my beliefs, becuase it does seem that some people's religious beliefs limit them and keep them from enjoying life.

Ok so we agree on that. That reads like you're saying your religion is right and other religions are wrong? what happens to those people who aren't of your religion when it comes to judgement day?
bill
bill avatar

4931 posts since 5/8/09

5 Apr 2010 01:08
Guido wrote: the pope telling people that using a condom is a sin in areas where AIDS is rife is to me as bad as somebody flying a plane full of people into a building.

Relax, everything's under control


Serbia
Serbia avatar

4932 posts since 22/3/06

5 Apr 2010 01:12
Farrell wrote: Oh ffs guido no i don't think it's something only religion can teach you to do, you can not seriously think i believe that people who do not believe do not have the urge or feel the need to enjoy life. Some credit man. I was agreeing with a sentiment i thought you were expressing - to enjoy life, and saying it fitted in with my beliefs, becuase it does seem that some people's religious beliefs limit them and keep them from enjoying life.

bresone i honestly don't feel that I fit into any of those three.

Farrell I really feel like you'd take something from reading the god delusion, or at least watching that Dawkins, Grayling and Bishop of Oxford debate i posted earlier.

As AC Grayling says himself Laughing out loud ……….

I would imagine Jesus was a kind of Jewish reformer. If you were looking for an equivalent to the figure you dimly perceive through the gospels it would probably be a Richard Dawkins.
bill
bill avatar

4931 posts since 5/8/09

5 Apr 2010 01:12
ejike10 wrote: you saying science isnt a belief is utter nonsense guido, everything that one "knows" is a belief. i assume that you not answering the question of brainwashing that you realise not all people who hold "religious" beliefs are actually brainwashed

Science has the E V I D E N C E for belief.
Guido
Guido avatar

12884 posts since 20/4/05

5 Apr 2010 01:13
ejike10 wrote:
Guido wrote: science isn't a belief. It's a seeking of knowledge. Don't make it out to be more than it is.

philosophy of knowledge - in order for someone to know something: x is true, person y has to believe x is true, person y is justified in believing x is true.

you saying science isnt a belief is utter nonsense guido, everything that one "knows" is a belief. i assume that you not answering the question of brainwashing that you realise not all people who hold "religious" beliefs are actually brainwashed

Somebody states something to be a possibility. they then set out to proves it so, in doing so they offer evidence to the fact. That evidence may be fallible and disproved. It may support the original thesis. All in all though it offers a question and possible answer with evidence to support the fact or refute it.

religion is the statement of something and the absolute belief it to be true with no evidence to allow the acceptance of fact or refutable evidence to the contrary.

If you think they are the same then I would question your sanity.
stelfox
stelfox avatar

8488 posts since 11/3/09

5 Apr 2010 01:15
bresone are you preaching/pushing atheism on me? and are you just taking the piss now?
stelfox
stelfox avatar

8488 posts since 11/3/09

5 Apr 2010 01:16
Guido wrote:
Farrell wrote: Oh ffs guido no i don't think it's something only religion can teach you to do, you can not seriously think i believe that people who do not believe do not have the urge or feel the need to enjoy life. Some credit man. I was agreeing with a sentiment i thought you were expressing - to enjoy life, and saying it fitted in with my beliefs, becuase it does seem that some people's religious beliefs limit them and keep them from enjoying life.

Ok so we agree on that. That reads like you're saying your religion is right and other religions are wrong? what happens to those people who aren't of your religion when it comes to judgement day?

I really don't know, as far as i regard judgement if you have done more right than wrong then you've had a positive effect. i haven't studied christianity hard enough, my memory is terrible and all the science i have actually learnt has pushed out all the old stuff (i havent done religious studies since i was 14).

And christians (the particular brand that seems to fit most with my feeling) can be as bad as any other religion for fucking others over and repressing people.
Serbia
Serbia avatar

4932 posts since 22/3/06

5 Apr 2010 01:17
Guido wrote:
Foxtrot wrote: Guido your loathing of religion is almost farcical. For you to hold such contempt for 'religion', besides the point of respect overpowers your argument and adds fuel to the narrow-mindedness of your opinion.

I sometimes think that the contempt in people like you is a foil for a deep seated hidden discomfort in the fact that you just might be might be wrong.

I use 'people like you' to refer to those who hardened their hearts in spite of the absence of conclusively compelling scientific evidence to the slightlest possibility of 'the grand perhaps'

We're told we should accept religion and make allowances for it. Why? It's all false as I see it and the pope telling people that using a condom is a sin in areas where AIDS is rife is to me as bad as somebody flying a plane full of people into a building. The sentiment and brainwashing behind it is exactly the same. that's a horrible thing to face but it's a truth to me.

Religion is a tool created by man to control man and prays on our fallibilities and weakness as mortal beings aware of our own ultimate demise.

I personally think those who can accept that and live a productive life are the strongest people alive.

Agree very much so with last line of Guidos post.

To believe something in the face of evidence and against reason - to believe something by faith - is ignoble, irresponsible and ignorant, and merits the opposite of respect.


Noble Locks
Noble Locks avatar

66963 posts since 10/7/03

5 Apr 2010 01:18
ejike10
ejike10 avatar

117 posts since 17/2/09

5 Apr 2010 01:18
that's got nothing to do with what i originally said, all i did ws question what you said on the first page about all religious people being brainwashed. nothing to do with proof, fallibility. the example i gave is one that many religious people have experienced and so you saying this breeze about brainwashing is totally inaccurate.

if you can't see that, then whose sanity/intelligence should be questioned, and who is acting like more of a "brainwashed idiot"
fontelroy
fontelroy avatar

3200 posts since 14/6/08

5 Apr 2010 01:21
a few people are coming across as very bigoted in here
Serbia
Serbia avatar

4932 posts since 22/3/06

5 Apr 2010 01:22
Farrell wrote: bresone are you preaching/pushing atheism on me? and are you just taking the piss now?

nope definately not. You seem like a nice guy. I think you'd get something out of the God Dellusion. It's not NLP or anything! Might reinforce your beliefs more, might help you to rationalise the "good" feelings you get which you attribute to god from a Physiolgical perspective. Who knows.
Serbia
Serbia avatar

4932 posts since 22/3/06

5 Apr 2010 01:35
EVERS wrote:
Foxtrot wrote: Guido your loathing of religion is almost farcical. For you to hold such contempt for 'religion', besides the point of respect overpowers your argument and adds fuel to the narrow-mindedness of your opinion.

I sometimes think that the contempt in people like you is a foil for a deep seated hidden discomfort in the fact that you just might be might be wrong.

I use 'people like you' to refer to those who hardened their hearts in spite of the absence of conclusively compelling scientific evidence to the slightlest possibility of 'the grand perhaps'

100% bull

Lol - The existence of a possibility of a "grand perhaps" doesnt validate religion. Laughing out loud

Noble Locks
Noble Locks avatar

66963 posts since 10/7/03

5 Apr 2010 01:41
fontelroy wrote: a few people are coming across as very bigoted in here
Foxtrot
Foxtrot avatar

2477 posts since 8/4/09

5 Apr 2010 01:44
Guido wrote: We're told we should accept religion and make allowances for it. Why?

Religion is a tool created by man to control man and prays on our fallibilities and weakness as mortal beings aware of our own ultimate demise.

I personally think those who can accept that and live a productive life are the strongest people alive.

No, people like you assume that you should accept religion and make allowances for it. 21st century is a far more secular society than what we have experienced before. Im sure you would agree? This trend towards secularisation, suggests that more and more people get on with their lives without having to rely on a belief system, without being influenced by the apparent acceptance that has been made for religion (to indulge you for one moment), and without conceding any ground to religion altogether.

Who tells you that you are to accept religion and make allowances for it? I certainly do not implore you to accept my belief system. I certainly do not ram my point of view down the throats of others and i certainly do not ask you to make allowances for my belief.

Your point is relevant only to a small minority of dogmatists.

I think my initial point remains in relation to the respective roles of the two 'institutions'. We can all suggest aphorisms. I could say that science, inter alia, is a tool created by man to pray on our insecurities and deep seated discomfort with the possibility in the existence of a creator. It doesnt make it any more true.