Menswear: The 'Rough And Rugged' Thread.


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edlo
edlo avatar

639 posts since 13/9/14

posted 29 May 2015 19:15, edited 29 May 2015 19:15
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james_fox
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541 posts since 1/8/10

29 May 2015 19:59
edlo wrote: Can anyone tell me brands they like with a similar style to RRL? I really like the style of their stuff, but cannot come anywhere near to being able to afford the RRP

you UK based? ralph store at bicester village does RRL super cheap
edlo
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639 posts since 13/9/14

posted 29 May 2015 20:03, edited 29 May 2015 20:03
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stylistics
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122 posts since 4/6/09

29 May 2015 20:45
Perhaps a bit late to be chiming in on the 'made in China' discussion, but here's my take (which has changed a lot over the years)…

What Mil says is true…China can make some of the shittiest/shoddiest product out there. Then again, China also has the machines, the facilities, and the skilled/experienced labor to make things as good as the best. It's all up to the brand that's hiring their manufacturing services to decide what they're willing to pay for. That said, "Made in China" does make quality control more difficult, but it doesn't necessarily equate to poor quality. The reason it has that image is because most people who go to China for production are seeking out the cheapest options and, in turn, end up getting the cheapest quality.

However, there are a handful of other reasons, ethical and political, why I think Beedub is perfectly justified in being put off by that label. This is one of the big ones…
Crackajack wrote: I'm sure JP and USA garment factory work is no walk in the park, but at least those countries have some semblance of a minimum wage!

Moving production to China, unless necessary (which it is sometimes), means that you're actively choosing to take business away from the local economy and out of the pockets of the local workers and give it to a foreign economy/industry with lower labor standards that is infamous for making a small percentage extremely rich while keeping a large percentage poor. Even more, particularly for JP brands, you're choosing to support a foreign government that is constantly at odds with your own…not to mention, one that supports North Korea. All of this (mostly) in an effort to increase profitability and fatten your own pockets.

I think it's perfectly reasonable not to really think or care about that stuff as a general consumer. But at the same time, I think if everyone did, to some extent, everyone would be a little better off for it.
Bennelli
Bennelli avatar

3461 posts since 25/5/11

29 May 2015 21:32
^ Nice post & Mil

Big one for me is this bad-boy
stylistics wrote: ethical

I very, very rarely buy off the high street because of this.

The bit about China makes sense, in being able to produce both excellent & shoddy quality - both sides of the market being covered - mo'profit.

If one was inclined to think a certain way, the made in China = shoddy goods could be a way of a country driving down prices on imports etc…

Forper
Forper avatar

2080 posts since 29/1/13

29 May 2015 21:37
stylistics wrote: However, there are a handful of other reasons, ethical and political, why I think Beedub is perfectly justified in being put off by that label. This is one of the big ones…
Crackajack wrote: I'm sure JP and USA garment factory work is no walk in the park, but at least those countries have some semblance of a minimum wage!

Moving production to China, unless necessary (which it is sometimes), means that you're actively choosing to take business away from the local economy and out of the pockets of the local workers and give it to a foreign economy/industry with lower labor standards that is infamous for making a small percentage extremely rich while keeping a large percentage poor. Even more, particularly for JP brands, you're choosing to support a foreign government that is constantly at odds with your own…not to mention, one that supports North Korea. All of this (mostly) in an effort to increase profitability and fatten your own pockets.

I think it's perfectly reasonable not to really think or care about that stuff as a general consumer. But at the same time, I think if everyone did, to some extent, everyone would be a little better off for it.

yeah but Styles, wages in China are going up every year, workers there demand it, minimum wage or not. That's another reason production IS going back to places like the US and Japan.

Also I dunno about the US but in Australia, before clothing production left for good a lot of stuff was made in backyard sweatshops by migrant workers earning less than minimum wage anyway.

I love Chinese people and am happy to fund their employment. The many Chinese people I know are a lot like Australians, open, friendly and no bullshit. When they come here everyone hates the Commies, I hate their government too. I love Americans too and am also happy to send my money there.

It's all personal choice but imo what you really got to worry about is workers in countries like Bangladesh, Myanmar, Laos etc. Those shitholes where workers really are exploited as virtual slaves in dangerous conditions.
DELFOR
DELFOR avatar

368 posts since 10/2/09

29 May 2015 23:04
edlo wrote: Can anyone tell me brands they like with a similar style to RRL? I really like the style of their stuff, but cannot come anywhere near to being able to afford the RRP

This was in the westfields store, but online stock them as well. Good shout on the discouts
stylistics
stylistics avatar

122 posts since 4/6/09

30 May 2015 00:33
Forper wrote: It's all personal choice but imo what you really got to worry about is workers in countries like Bangladesh, Myanmar, Laos etc. Those shitholes where workers really are exploited as virtual slaves in dangerous conditions.

True and true. Conditions for workers in Chinese factories may not be to the standards of what we deem fit and the pay may be substandard, but I doubt the "sweatshop" conditions that we all imagine are common. The other countries you listed, however…

Either way, there is far too much good stuff out there that is being produced in countries/factories that provide their workers with desirable conditions/wages and that contribute to their local economies. I'm with Beedub in the fact that I can't look past that 'Made in China' tag…especially when it's on a garment made from a brand as filthy rich/profitable as RRL.
TIMDOT
TIMDOT avatar

876 posts since 6/8/14

posted 30 May 2015 00:37, edited 30 May 2015 00:37
In the production process I think the one main factor that you need is control.

Outsourcing to a country like China means you can have the machinery and a skilled workforce but what if something goes wrong? Like a late delivery of cloth or some component that is defective. You have the language barrier in the way and you may have solve it by proxy which takes up more time.

China's union laws are still not good. Which is an ethical concern. Also, making sure the workers are treated well is difficult across languages and distance.

I think the ideal situation to make things, from a control perspective, is to own your own factory in the same country you design the product. Which May be impossible but at least any problems that arise are your own.

Making the customer feel like a patron and that they have a tiny amount of control over your output softens the hit of increasing prices. Having a loyal following who you mostly sell directly to and having a few accounts around the globe with even fewer people designing and producing in the same country seems more realistic but maybe not totally.
__

Why doesn't wtaps make 'em like they used to? Did they lose their ability to design? Or at some point was it not as profitable and at that point they had too many accounts and so on…

stylistics
stylistics avatar

122 posts since 4/6/09

30 May 2015 00:39
Bennelli wrote: The bit about China makes sense, in being able to produce both excellent & shoddy quality - both sides of the market being covered - mo'profit.

It's funny because you'd think the cost-effectiveness of producing in China would allow brands to lower their price point. Not the case, though…they just increase their profits. As if RRL and Visvim needed an increase in profit margins…
TIMDOT
TIMDOT avatar

876 posts since 6/8/14

30 May 2015 00:52
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzYl9XbH29k
Interesting video with snippets from the tilak factory aka where acronym makes their stuff (I think).
Tilak and acronym stuff might have the similar specs but damn acr's designs and brand identity make it so much cooler making the higher price almost seem worth it.
stylistics
stylistics avatar

122 posts since 4/6/09

30 May 2015 01:02
TIMDOT wrote: Why doesn't wtaps make 'em like they used to? Did they lose their ability to design? Or at some point was it not as profitable and at that point they had too many accounts and so on…

I truthfully don't think WTaps quality has taken that big of a hit (if any)…but their attention to detail/creativity certainly has. Judging by Tet's other projects (Descendent, Doubtful as Double, Olive for the Pool, etc.), I'd call it laziness and a realization that hype sells more than creativity.
Forper
Forper avatar

2080 posts since 29/1/13

posted 30 May 2015 10:17, edited 30 May 2015 10:17
TIMDOT wrote: tries to sound knowledgeable and get credibility
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Why doesn't wtaps make 'em like they used to? Did they lose their ability to design? Or at some point was it not as profitable and at that point they had too many accounts and so on…

Taps quality is still good overall. Design wise In my opinion the main reason they don't make em like they used to is just coz of changing trends. Don't listen when Tet says he doesn't follow trends, he does, they all do.

The other main reason I believe but don't know is that the brand iconography and look were originally heavily designed and influenced by Skatething. He's hasn't been involved since Philosophy store 1 and it's followed Tet's interests and less eccentric design sense since then. First with a punk influence, then with a lot of retakes of the classics in different materials (early Black Flag era), then trad, preppy, west coast skater, biker (clothes that might as well be neighborhood).

I kinda think Tet is a hack but then again most of C.E. is unimpressive to me, maybe coz it doesn't have that military influence. But every now and then I see a cut n sew from C.E. with that skatoshin magic again..for real he is the real genius behind 90% of what we love imo
TIMDOT
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876 posts since 6/8/14

30 May 2015 11:39
"tries to sound knowledgeable and get credibility"
In between the "I thinks" and closing sentence ("seems more realistic but maybe not totally.") nothing about it was knowledge, only speculation.
C-Stylez
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5232 posts since 4/7/12

2 Jun 2015 17:16






Mighty Mongrel Mob, NZ
gbh-h
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1478 posts since 4/4/13

2 Jun 2015 17:29
Laughing out loud
DuffMan
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14389 posts since 21/2/07

2 Jun 2015 17:34
Love me some nazi memorabilia
padawan
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4465 posts since 27/6/03

2 Jun 2015 18:04
bunch of hype pussies….
Forper
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2080 posts since 29/1/13

posted 4 Jun 2015 11:44, edited 4 Jun 2015 11:44
old australian bikies:


new australian bikies:

Crackajack
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7960 posts since 21/4/05

9 Jun 2015 13:05
Can anyone recommend a good JP online stockist of Real McCoys / Joe McCoy? I have tried the regional webstores like Nagoya & Ibaraki but they don't have the item I want. I know they tried to remove their brands from Rakuten last year so I guess that's why it's harder to find stuff?