General Discussion: The Running Thread


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andymakesglasses
andymakesglasses avatar

20501 posts since 26/1/06

posted 10 Dec 2020 09:24, edited 10 Dec 2020 09:24
16simon wrote: Am still looking for the perfect road/trail shoe, but I suppose they'll always be a compromise.

I've got a pair of Haglöfs Gore-Tex trail running shoes (a few years old but largely similar to the latest models) which are pretty good. Mainly wear them for cycling and urban (tarmac & muddy tarmac) running in winter but have worn them a handful of times on muddy trails and they had good grip.

Edit: meant to say they're made by / with Asics so have good support.
swiftus
swiftus avatar

1301 posts since 1/7/09

posted 10 Dec 2020 09:54, edited 10 Dec 2020 09:54
MrW wrote:
swiftus wrote: I understand that companies like Hoka, On, Brooks, Asics, etc. are specialist running trainer brands. So how comes none of the world's top elite athletes wear their trainers?

They do.

https://www.hokaoneone.eu/en/gb/jan-frodeno.html

Trying to find a list of other athletes Hoka sponsor, but not having any luck. Looks like Jan Frodeno moved over recently from Asics to Hoka. The fact that they have a separate page for him on their site makes me think he's an exception rather than the rule (why would they highlight just him if they have a portfolio of world class athletes).

Another infographic, more recent:
https://www.runningshoesguru.com/2019/11/nike-vaporfly-shoes-claim-31-out-of-36-podiums-in-2019-world-marathon-majors/

Edit: Just to add, I'm not pro-Nike, or anti-Hoka/On/etc. Just interested in this.
willesdengreen
willesdengreen avatar

638 posts since 10/6/10

10 Dec 2020 10:09
swiftus wrote:
MrW wrote:
swiftus wrote: I understand that companies like Hoka, On, Brooks, Asics, etc. are specialist running trainer brands. So how comes none of the world's top elite athletes wear their trainers?

They do.

https://www.hokaoneone.eu/en/gb/jan-frodeno.html

Trying to find a list of other athletes Hoka sponsor, but not having any luck. Looks like Jan Frodeno moved over recently from Asics to Hoka. The fact that they have a separate page for him on their site makes me think he's an exception rather than the rule (why would they highlight just him if they have a portfolio of world class athletes).

Another infographic, more recent:
https://www.runningshoesguru.com/2019/11/nike-vaporfly-shoes-claim-31-out-of-36-podiums-in-2019-world-marathon-majors/

Edit: Just to add, I'm not pro-Nike, or anti-Hoka/On/etc. Just interested in this.

same reason that every skater's footwear is sponsored by adidas, nike or vans and not any of the smaller skate brands around in the 90s and 00s

i don't know this for sure, but would guess sponsorship is probably primary income for many athletes and nike / adidas obviously have deeper pockets
swiftus
swiftus avatar

1301 posts since 1/7/09

10 Dec 2020 10:23
willesdengreen wrote:
swiftus wrote:
MrW wrote:
swiftus wrote: I understand that companies like Hoka, On, Brooks, Asics, etc. are specialist running trainer brands. So how comes none of the world's top elite athletes wear their trainers?

They do.

https://www.hokaoneone.eu/en/gb/jan-frodeno.html

Trying to find a list of other athletes Hoka sponsor, but not having any luck. Looks like Jan Frodeno moved over recently from Asics to Hoka. The fact that they have a separate page for him on their site makes me think he's an exception rather than the rule (why would they highlight just him if they have a portfolio of world class athletes).

Another infographic, more recent:
https://www.runningshoesguru.com/2019/11/nike-vaporfly-shoes-claim-31-out-of-36-podiums-in-2019-world-marathon-majors/

Edit: Just to add, I'm not pro-Nike, or anti-Hoka/On/etc. Just interested in this.

same reason that every skater's footwear is sponsored by adidas, nike or vans and not any of the smaller skate brands around in the 90s and 00s

i don't know this for sure, but would guess sponsorship is probably primary income for many athletes and nike / adidas obviously have deeper pockets

Agree with the 'sponsorship is probably primary income for many athletes' statement. For the elite athletes, do you think they're willing to give up a gold medal for it (if the 'right' trainers shave seconds off your time)?

I'm not convinced by the comparison to skateboarding. Footwear is not a large contribution to a top skateboarder's ability, compared to footwear for a runner. I'm not a skateboarder, but I imagine that if changed an elite skateboarder's trainers from Vans to the 5/6th best brand out there for skateboarding trainers, they'd still be top of their game, with little/no impact on their performance.

Unless you're saying the trainers don't make that much difference to elite runners? Which I'd disagree with as well.
ODB
ODB avatar

3552 posts since 21/6/06

10 Dec 2020 16:03
Half today,
Kadafi39
Kadafi39 avatar

1880 posts since 30/10/09

10 Dec 2020 16:56
Incredible work mate. Does the cals burnt look right to you? Its about 100 cals a mile?
Seventyfour
Seventyfour avatar

9278 posts since 6/10/05

10 Dec 2020 17:13
Kadafi39 wrote: Incredible work mate. Does the cals burnt look right to you? Its about 100 cals a mile?

I think t go's on your age weight fitness etc I did 22.6k a few months ago and it said I'd burned 2100 cals
ODB
ODB avatar

3552 posts since 21/6/06

10 Dec 2020 18:12
Kadafi39 wrote: Incredible work mate. Does the cals burnt look right to you? Its about 100 cals a mile?
Think you may have a point man, though since switch from Apple to Garmin there’s some difference, the Apple would give 19 odd burned for that run lol
Seventyfour
Seventyfour avatar

9278 posts since 6/10/05

10 Dec 2020 19:57
How old are you? Burning 1300 calories over an half marathon seems very feasible to me.
ODB
ODB avatar

3552 posts since 21/6/06

10 Dec 2020 20:01
42
MrW
MrW avatar

2938 posts since 1/8/11

10 Dec 2020 20:30
Nice work ODB Cool

Last three halfs I've done show between 1350 and 1460 calories, also using Garmin. This seems to be reasonably accurate.
ODB
ODB avatar

3552 posts since 21/6/06

10 Dec 2020 21:23
nice one mate, ill have a look
ODB
ODB avatar

3552 posts since 21/6/06

10 Dec 2020 21:37
that site says
Calories burned: 1786
400 odd of a differance
fuk knows then man
waterfall
waterfall avatar

1239 posts since 14/1/07

10 Dec 2020 21:48
What do you guys use to record your activity

I am on garmin fenix 6 pro linked to strava

Also, do you think the calorie burn on a garmin is accurate? I’ve always wondered
ODB
ODB avatar

3552 posts since 21/6/06

posted 10 Dec 2020 22:02, edited 10 Dec 2020 22:02
Garmin mate, also linked to starva, as I said above the apple always showed more
I only recently switch from apple, defo prefer the Garmin layout and app is good too.
Essence
Essence avatar

3119 posts since 10/1/05

10 Dec 2020 22:12
MrW wrote:
Essence wrote: You looked at Hoka - the challenger is a decent go between shoe.

Have you tried the Challenger ATR Gore-Tex? Been using Hokas (Arahi) for a few years now but after something more robust and water-resistant for winter & off-road, Challengers currently top of the list.

Haven't used any of the goretex shoes - oddly i have just ordered the other half some speed goat 4 goretex for Christmas. I don't mind wet feet.
MrW
MrW avatar

2938 posts since 1/8/11

posted 10 Dec 2020 22:28, edited 10 Dec 2020 22:28
waterfall wrote: What do you guys use to record your activity

I am on garmin fenix 6 pro linked to strava

Also, do you think the calorie burn on a garmin is accurate? I’ve always wondered
FR935 for everything, including zwift. Also use an Edge 530 when out on the bike, garmin connect linked to strava.

Garmin algorithms use all sorts of data in calculations - height, weight, age etc from your profile, resting heart rate, active heart rate, current activity, previous activity history and loads more. The more data the algorithms can draw from, the more accurate calculated data should be (allegedly). When I switched from a 920 to my 935, it took a month or so for garmin connect to catch up with all the new / different data it was getting.

Been said a few times before but using OHR on your watch won't be as accurate as an HR strap, and HR drives a lot of those calculations. I think the data from garmin connect is reasonably accurate and enough for my needs, would need to do proper lab VO2 tests with lab HR monitors to really find out how much so.
waterfall
waterfall avatar

1239 posts since 14/1/07

10 Dec 2020 22:46
thanks for the info guys, appreciated

what's OHR?

I like the Garmin interface, its just a shame its not got much of a 'community' as strava

do you have any add on apps you recommend? I added some skins, bleep test, pace setter but that's about it really, also Garmin pay but I had to setup a Starling account as Halifax wasn't compatible
Burt
Burt avatar

6145 posts since 3/1/10

11 Dec 2020 07:29
Fenox 6 Sapphire for me - best piece of kit I've ever owned. I had the Garmin HR strap but found it was giving me similar readings to the watch on its' own so ditched it although in hindsight I wish I'd have stuck with it.
MrW
MrW avatar

2938 posts since 1/8/11

11 Dec 2020 09:51
waterfall wrote: what's OHR?
Optical heart rate, the one on the back of your watch.

On the whole OHR is pretty accurate and if you wear your watch 24/7, it'll track resting heart rate which is used in algorithms. Compared to a strap, OHR accuracy can be less accurate for activities with quick or sudden changes in heart rate, such as interval training, and where it's worn on the wrist / how tightly it's worn can also affect it. Cycling's always hard for an OHR to get right due to constant movement of hand and wrist switching between hoods & drops, when braking etc.