General Discussion: The Championship (and lower divisions) discussion thread including transfers.


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Noble Locks
Noble Locks avatar

66963 posts since 10/7/03

11 Nov 2007 14:09
proof please..not doubting ya, would just like to see some records of 15 year olds playing competetive games in the top two divsions…i really dont think there has been more than two or three in my minds eye, and i promise i havent looked it up anywhere…. but i do actually like to be proved wrong.
BBK
BBK avatar

5 posts since 12/10/07

11 Nov 2007 14:12
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Peter-Lorimer-Leeds-Scotland-Mainstream/dp/1840189312

"In September 1962, he made his debut aged 15 years and 289 days."
AAA
AAA avatar

10012 posts since 15/12/02

11 Nov 2007 14:15
At Charlton only young'uns I can think of is Scott Parker at 16, and maybe Osie Sankofa who was about 17?

Think Noble is right, in the top 2 tiers you hardly hear of players younger than 18 playing regular
Noble Locks
Noble Locks avatar

66963 posts since 10/7/03

11 Nov 2007 14:15
nice one, but doesnt say what division or if it was in a league cup game etc.
Mentalist
Mentalist avatar

492 posts since 11/4/07

11 Nov 2007 14:20
Matt wrote: Think Noble is right, in the top 2 tiers you hardly hear of players younger than 18 playing regular


Course he's right, its blindingly obvious that there wont be many under 18s playing regularly.
Noble Locks
Noble Locks avatar

66963 posts since 10/7/03

11 Nov 2007 14:24
i think the point im trying to make is, that between Warnock and Jordan, they couldnt give a fuck for the kid, or the 'team' at the moment, bringing on a 15 year old when you are in the bottom three and losing at home is complete madness, but its for the sole purpose of putting him in the shop window, to fuck him off for big money and rebuild the shit squad they have got and ensure championship division 1 safety.
MoB
MoB avatar

36903 posts since 31/8/04

11 Nov 2007 14:27
Mentalist wrote:
Matt wrote: Think Noble is right, in the top 2 tiers you hardly hear of players younger than 18 playing regular


Course he's right, its blindingly obvious that there wont be many under 18s playing regularly.

Nobody said regular though. I just said it was nothing new and 34 players proves that. The top two tiers argument came into after i said it was nthing new. I said if anything would get more frequant. Plus there are loads of under 18's playing these days, but were talkign under 16's.

Btw Peter Lorimer played for leeds in 1963 when they were in divsion 2. Dunno who against or any other info as to wether it was league, fa cup, league cup, milk cup etc etc
MoB
MoB avatar

36903 posts since 31/8/04

11 Nov 2007 14:29
And i agree palace are only doing it to sell him but i also think lower league teams are having to bring in younger lpayers early just so they get games out of them before they are sold on to chelsea who then loan them out to other lower league clubs.
Mentalist
Mentalist avatar

492 posts since 11/4/07

11 Nov 2007 14:31
MoB wrote: Nobody said regular though. I just said it was nothing new and 34 players proves that. The top two tiers argument came into after i said it was nthing new. I said if anything would get more frequant. Plus there are loads of under 18's playing these days, but were talkign under 16's.

Btw Peter Lorimer played for leeds in 1963 when they were in divsion 2. Dunno who against or any other info as to wether it was league, fa cup, league cup, milk cup etc etc

My comment was in direct response to Matts, not the discussion as a whole. It depends what you mean by loads, course theres some, but theres not a lot that hold down regular starting places aged 17 or less.
Noble Locks
Noble Locks avatar

66963 posts since 10/7/03

11 Nov 2007 14:40
becoming a PRO and actually playing in div 1 or 2 is a billion miles away from each other tho mob…so i still stand by me saying that playing a 15 year old in a competitive top two division game is very very new, and very very rare.
MoB
MoB avatar

36903 posts since 31/8/04

11 Nov 2007 14:44
yeah but that list of 34 are players under 15 who HAVE made their debuts at 15, not just pro contracts. I'll email the guy who did the article and get the list of players and clubs.
Remember years ago kids left school at what 14? So of those 34 there could be a fair few who played in the 60's 70's in lower league(maybe div 2) and nobody would have heard of them
Noble Locks
Noble Locks avatar

66963 posts since 10/7/03

11 Nov 2007 14:46
that would be wicked, i aint arguing, i love stats etc…. i mean the 3 names he gave out of the 34 were hardly household names were they, lorimer aside.
CovOne
CovOne avatar

8652 posts since 17/8/04

11 Nov 2007 14:50
In Recent times i no they are not quite 15 but Jermaine Pennant played for arsenal aged 16 i'm not sure whether he played for notts county before though ? Gary Mcsheffrey played for Coventry aged 16, Bojan is currently playing for barca aged 17, Armand Traoré played for Arsenal about 2 seasons ago and he is only 18 now so it does happened however at 15 it is rare
Noble Locks
Noble Locks avatar

66963 posts since 10/7/03

11 Nov 2007 14:51
if i had of said sixteen instead of fifteen, and mob would of said 'thats nothing new' i would not be even othering to debate the fact now tho.
CovOne
CovOne avatar

8652 posts since 17/8/04

11 Nov 2007 14:52
not saying your wrong mate don't worry, i no the debate is about 15 year old
Mentalist
Mentalist avatar

492 posts since 11/4/07

11 Nov 2007 14:54
Its very rare to play at 15, and its so rare that I dont think you can really say if its a new thing or not. My point is that itd have to happen regularly either now, or have happened regularly in the past, to say one way or the other. A couple of random incidents over the years shows nothing.
Noble Locks
Noble Locks avatar

66963 posts since 10/7/03

11 Nov 2007 14:56
it all boils down to cunts like jordan treating the game like a business first rather than loving the club and the football. Evil
Mentalist
Mentalist avatar

492 posts since 11/4/07

11 Nov 2007 14:58
The question is: is he any good?

Also, I'm not trying to start an argument, but why do you think its so bad? Because hes clearly not ready so might damage his chances of developing? Or because hes too small/weak or what?
MoB
MoB avatar

36903 posts since 31/8/04

11 Nov 2007 14:59
Email sent

Hi i read your article regarding Crystal Palace's bright young thing John Bostock. While myself didn't regard the fact he was 15 as hugely significant a friend of mine did. He thinks that of the 34 players in the list of under 16's very few if any have made their debuts in the top two tiers of english football. I think there is a few given the leaving age for school in earlier years was much younger so im thinking there may have been a few at least second division debutants? but without proof i can only thikn of Matthew Ethrington and as you listed Lorimer so would it be possible for you to confirm either way and also provide me the list of 34? thanks for your time. Keep up the very good work.

CovOne
CovOne avatar

8652 posts since 17/8/04

11 Nov 2007 15:01
time will tell, i no i'm referring back to the 16 year olds but all of them seem to have done alrite for themselves (in there will be exceptions) but its only a years difference ?

Edit: a more likely scenario, he will be snapped up by somebody and you won't hear nothing of him for a couple of years