Menswear: Which watch?


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Kadafi39
Kadafi39 avatar

1719 posts since 30/10/09

posted 22 Jul 2020 10:41, edited 22 Jul 2020 10:41
swiftus wrote:
Kadafi39 wrote: I guess its hard to quantify unless you actually like watches. Its like someone saying what makes a rolls royce such a great car, a nissan will get you from a to b too.

Not really. I mean you can take someone who knows nothing about cars, sit them inside a Rolls Royce and Nissan, and recognise the difference. Leather seats, smoothness of the ride, space, champagne flutes, you could probably name at least 100 differences. I don't think you can say the same between a Patek and a Rolex (correct me if I'm wrong here).

From what you're saying, it sounds like the brand is living off past glories and hype rather than anything current (e.g. innovation, etc)?

Again, just looking at this from a layman perspective. Compare the Patek to a Grand Seiko. Does an upgrade in movement and material justify a 1000% increase in price (assuming looks are subjective)?

By the way, realise we're talking about this on a fashion forum, where markup for a lot of gear is ridiculous based on branding. It's just that you hardly ever hear items of clothing being described as perfect or flawless in the same way you do with some watches.

I guess that would be a fair argument, but this sector of watches is nothing to do with innovation, innovation in watches would be quartz movements or digital watches, they rode that storm many years ago and still came out on top.

Complications are also innovative, but not new, PP, AP & VC do perpetual calendars and other grand complications, though the 3 above are the base models, but the nautilus comes in many different forms with different complications.

The difference in quality between a patek and a rolex is noticeable imo, though judgement is likely clouded by the fact that rolex is a household name and through marketing has become synonymous with luxury watches.

Rolex used off the shelf movements from other manufacturers until the 2000s and never even had a single watch with a complication until they recently launched the skydweller.

I see what youre getting at with the grand seiko and PP, but from another point of view a 7 series is made by BMW, you can spec them with reclining seats in the rear, long wheel base, fridge, champagne holder, tvs, wifi, you name it.

Rolls royce is owned by bmw and some models even use the 7 series chassis and many components are bmw parts. Specced to similar levels the rolls would be 3x the cost of the 7 series. Does an upgrade in leather or floor mats justify that cost increase?

I guess for those that can afford it they want the best of the best, doesnt matter if the value is apparent they dont want the same watch, car or trainers that most people can afford. They want rarity and exclusivity.

Edit: I dont know why this is in 7 parts but this might help explain where all the extra man hours and cost comes from compared to something like a rolex.
Murakami
Murakami avatar

13324 posts since 9/5/05

22 Jul 2020 11:41
You can’t deny the craftsmanship of Patek but I suspect false scarcity tactics . Patek produce around 60,000 pieces a year compared to Rolex at a million pieces per year
compulsiveshopper
compulsiveshopper avatar

1275 posts since 12/6/12

22 Jul 2020 14:19
It is hard to debate whether these represent good value because they're inherently irrational purchases. The quality of a Patek is on a par with other major haut de gamme manufacturers, like Breguet and Vacheron, but you will get a lot more bang for your buck with those alternatives. That said, they can't compete with Patek in terms of brand prestige, certainly for your average watch enthusiast anyway.
Kadafi39
Kadafi39 avatar

1719 posts since 30/10/09

posted 22 Jul 2020 15:20, edited 22 Jul 2020 15:20
Murakami wrote: You can’t deny the craftsmanship of Patek but I suspect false scarcity tactics . Patek produce around 60,000 pieces a year compared to Rolex at a million pieces per year

Most manufacturers (rolex included) are purposely limiting supply to keep prices and demand high.

compulsiveshopper wrote: It is hard to debate whether these represent good value because they're inherently irrational purchases. The quality of a Patek is on a par with other major haut de gamme manufacturers, like Breguet and Vacheron, but you will get a lot more bang for your buck with those alternatives. That said, they can't compete with Patek in terms of brand prestige, certainly for your average watch enthusiast anyway.

I would argue thought that in the current market if you can get any piece for rrp then its automatically good value, just because of grey market prices.

Patek is definitely top of the tree for most people in terms of brand prestige and exclusivity.
TheTiger
TheTiger avatar

3921 posts since 23/2/03

22 Jul 2020 15:38

There’s something old school cool about the Santos. Is this the one with the new style bracelet?
swiftus
swiftus avatar

1152 posts since 1/7/09

posted 22 Jul 2020 15:57, edited 22 Jul 2020 15:57
Thanks for that explanation Kadafi, really useful to know.

Kadafi39 wrote: Rolls royce is owned by bmw and some models even use the 7 series chassis and many components are bmw parts. Specced to similar levels the rolls would be 3x the cost of the 7 series. Does an upgrade in leather or floor mats justify that cost increase?

I guess this is what it comes down to. For me, the answer is no, but if you've got the cash and don't mine the (unwanted?) attention, why not?
ismvil
ismvil avatar

1301 posts since 16/9/11

24 Jul 2020 05:23


Feeling the green today.
swede
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8910 posts since 21/3/09

24 Jul 2020 07:02
Ubercool
Kadafi39
Kadafi39 avatar

1719 posts since 30/10/09

24 Jul 2020 10:03
Nice ismvil 16610lV?

I saw the royal oak offshore and the cartier, what else do you have?
ismvil
ismvil avatar

1301 posts since 16/9/11

posted 24 Jul 2020 10:26, edited 24 Jul 2020 10:26
Kadafi39 wrote: Nice ismvil 16610lV?

I saw the royal oak offshore and the cartier, what else do you have?

Yep, love the green detail.

So I've got a Seiko 5 with the arabic text / date window, an ETA Pelagos, a red line 126600, a 16622 and a no date sub my dad got from Saudi Arabia in the 80s, can't remember the reference and it's been away with Rolex for 4 months because of this virus shit.

I moved the Cartier last week as the chase was more fulfilling than wearing it for me. Looking to shift 1 more now as I need to thin it out a bit.
Kadafi39
Kadafi39 avatar

1719 posts since 30/10/09

24 Jul 2020 10:47
Nice collection, you shift the offshore too?
ismvil
ismvil avatar

1301 posts since 16/9/11

24 Jul 2020 10:53
Kadafi39 wrote: Nice collection, you shift the offshore too?

Thank you brother, I still have the AP. For now Smiling
Kadafi39
Kadafi39 avatar

1719 posts since 30/10/09

posted 24 Jul 2020 14:43, edited 24 Jul 2020 14:43
ismvil wrote:
Kadafi39 wrote: Nice collection, you shift the offshore too?

Thank you brother, I still have the AP. For now Smiling

Cant leave that out the list! Enjoy mate.
Best
Best avatar

9867 posts since 21/10/05

24 Jul 2020 15:43
ismvil that 16610V is a beauty
wembly
wembly avatar

487 posts since 15/1/13

24 Jul 2020 16:19
ismvil wrote: no date sub my dad got from Saudi Arabia in the 80s, can't remember the reference

I guess it's a 5512!
wembly
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487 posts since 15/1/13

posted 24 Jul 2020 16:21, edited 24 Jul 2020 16:21
swede
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8910 posts since 21/3/09

24 Jul 2020 16:25
wow wtf Jimmy Hill jawdrop
ismvil
ismvil avatar

1301 posts since 16/9/11

24 Jul 2020 16:28
wembly wrote:
ismvil wrote: no date sub my dad got from Saudi Arabia in the 80s, can't remember the reference

I guess it's a 5512!

I was going to say 5512 / 5513 but thought if anyone knows you'll know Smiling
ismvil
ismvil avatar

1301 posts since 16/9/11

24 Jul 2020 16:30
wembly wrote: the pension!

wembly
wembly avatar

487 posts since 15/1/13

24 Jul 2020 16:32
ismvil wrote:
wembly wrote:
ismvil wrote: no date sub my dad got from Saudi Arabia in the 80s, can't remember the reference

I guess it's a 5512!

I was going to say 5512 / 5513 but thought if anyone knows you'll know Smiling

oh saw it was NO date. then its a 5513