General Discussion: Students Study, Loans & School Or University, Chat, Discussion & Query Thread!!


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willesdengreen
willesdengreen avatar

649 posts since 10/6/10

2 Jan 2011 00:18
well why then at cambridge when undergrad medics flunk their exams get dumped on a nat-sci course instead of getting chucked out?

sure it may be less purely academic, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's any easier
exactlythat
exactlythat avatar

2345 posts since 27/10/07

2 Jan 2011 00:33
cambridge is an exception in that they have a very science based admissions process and course (its actually i think the only uni that even consider applicants without relevant work experience/ and only oxbridge ask scientific/ academic questions at interview). medicine isnt easy at all, but (from a prospective student pov) the concepts aren't as difficult to comprehend studying medicine. there is a lot more learning and understanding how to deal with patients that make it hard - very intensive.

ew2
ew2 avatar

498 posts since 9/3/08

2 Jan 2011 00:52
I was asked academic questions at my Imperial interview (and York one for that matter). Medicine is if you wanna be a doctor, if you fail your course the uni doesnt want to kick you out because they've already invested so much time in you and know you're probably clever at something. They try and change your degree instead so you can become a bio-natsci who might do medical research rather than be a doctor.

exactlythat wrote: exactly the course is mainly about patient skills and a decent memory. best scientists go do natural sciences or pure science degrees or something.

You need more than that I bet, I'd say its the hardest/longest course around from a non-medic point of view. 3 essays a week + hours in the labs doing practicals is seriously straining, natscis don't get it nearly as bad. I wouldn't say science degrees demand any higher levels of understanding than medicine in particular, have you seen those metabolism graphs? I don't see what it has to do with how good a scientist you are when it comes to the course you choose.
mr.white
mr.white avatar

17101 posts since 10/7/04

2 Jan 2011 01:18
are you guys gonna do some more protesting anytime soon?
exactlythat
exactlythat avatar

2345 posts since 27/10/07

2 Jan 2011 01:38
i was only talking about the academic q's w.r.t medicine, since nowadays questions are almost always about communication, empathy, the nhs etc with maybe why some medical research interests you.

cambridge are different to most med schools in that they put a lot of emphasis on academia (unlike others where its more a case of meet the grades and then its all about personality/ other skills), combine that with the costs of selecting and educating med students like you said they're not going to get rid of them.

im not saying medicine easy by any means. the article points out medical students as the brightest scientific minds of the country or something to that effect though.

you're right anyway. i made a generalisation that the best scientists wouldn't go for a vocational course where the scientific content is shares a lot biomed science degree (places like newcastle allow transfers between biomed and med students). just thought gaining skills for a job (that whilst having a scientific basis) is distracting if science is really what you're about. i'm wrong though cause that's more about what interests someone rather than their ability.

i stand by the fact that because med students have more work to do it doesn't necessarily mean they're more intelligent though.
andydavidleeroth
andydavidleeroth avatar

1691 posts since 30/11/03

2 Jan 2011 02:56
ChrisAlright wrote: So cringe.

Medics are hardly the "best young minds", just need a good memory.

"The average A-level requirement for students is a brain-stretching AAB" - since when has AAB been "brain stretching", it's fucking standard.

"In world terms, it jostles with the likes of Yale and Harvard for a place in the top ten." - it hardly "jostles". Never ranked above Harvard/Yale and not even close to being in the same league. Got ranked above MIT a couple of years ago (somehow), and we all lol'd. Thanks Times Education, unbiased I'm sure.

Could not read anymore, can't take them seriously (even for Daily Mail standards).



imperial is one of the best universities in the world, and medicine is a tough course. medics at imperial are perfectly qualified to be described "some of Britain’s best young brains". objecting to the word 'jostles'?
you seem to have a real chip on your shoulder.
unCouth
unCouth avatar

6883 posts since 3/11/07

6 Jan 2011 22:24
does anyone have any advice or know of any online guides for analysing a small sample of semi unstructured/unstructed interviews? The books/guides i have aren't too clever for this type of research method.

From what i can gather it seems to just be a case of identifying running themes and relating them to the study.
unCouth
unCouth avatar

6883 posts since 3/11/07

6 Jan 2011 22:34
Should've thought better than to ask at this time on a thursday night. They'll all be out vomitting in the street and pissing themselves from all the snakebites they've had by now…cunts.
willesdengreen
willesdengreen avatar

649 posts since 10/6/10

6 Jan 2011 22:44
im sitting at home watching star trek but i still can't help because i have no idea sorry
Nathan
Nathan avatar

285 posts since 25/2/07

6 Jan 2011 22:59
exactlythat wrote: i was only talking about the academic q's w.r.t medicine, since nowadays questions are almost always about communication, empathy, the nhs etc with maybe why some medical research interests you.

cambridge are different to most med schools in that they put a lot of emphasis on academia (unlike others where its more a case of meet the grades and then its all about personality/ other skills), combine that with the costs of selecting and educating med students like you said they're not going to get rid of them.

im not saying medicine easy by any means. the article points out medical students as the brightest scientific minds of the country or something to that effect though.

you're right anyway. i made a generalisation that the best scientists wouldn't go for a vocational course where the scientific content is shares a lot biomed science degree (places like newcastle allow transfers between biomed and med students). just thought gaining skills for a job (that whilst having a scientific basis) is distracting if science is really what you're about. i'm wrong though cause that's more about what interests someone rather than their ability.

i stand by the fact that because med students have more work to do it doesn't necessarily mean they're more intelligent though.

My girlfriend is at Imperial studying Medicine and it is solid. The work is tough and the amount of work they get is disgusting. The communication aspect is only a small part of their course and is only really developed during the clinical year at hospital - the other years are focused heavily on learning a shit load of information and the learning curve is steep. The number of people with flawless academic records and 4 or 5 As at A Level who go on to fail a year is surprisingly high which goes to show how tough it is.
exactlythat
exactlythat avatar

2345 posts since 27/10/07

6 Jan 2011 23:31
yeah i take it back. have to bear in mind though oxbridge, imperial and UCL are different to the rest (BMAT unis - use an academic admissions test). they all still stick with the traditionally divided heavily academic years and then do clinical placements which is obviously much tougher since its all body systems based and heavily factual. i was looking at the bulk who have moved to interactive problem based learning courses (researching independently and as a team solving clinical problems), patient contact on day one, placements from the first year etc. who also have a lot more varied SSCs outside of medicine and no academic admissions test, but essentially an IQ/ clinical aptitude test - they are geared far more towards the vocation rather than the science (not to say they skip the necessary stuff).

not sure where this is going really but my point is the overall perception of what medicine is like is dated now, yes there are unis like ICL and oxbridge who stick to their tried and tested traditional courses but its just not the same elsewhere anymore. junior doctors don't work 72hour weeks and medicine isn't necessarily the hardest course etc. being a medical student doesn't make you the elite anymore but it does show you are focused and motivated.
DuffMan
DuffMan avatar

14389 posts since 21/2/07

6 Jan 2011 23:54
unCouth wrote: does anyone have any advice or know of any online guides for analysing a small sample of semi unstructured/unstructed interviews? The books/guides i have aren't too clever for this type of research method.

From what i can gather it seems to just be a case of identifying running themes and relating them to the study.


Analysing in what way? Quantitatively there will be guidelines etc but qualitatively which presumably this is, you basically say whatever the fuck you like about it highlighting your points using the interview data (oh and there are fucking millions of books about it)
unCouth
unCouth avatar

6883 posts since 3/11/07

7 Jan 2011 00:09
i'm a distance learning 'student' so i don't have direct access to a library and i'm short on time. Unstructured interviews are qualitative in nature so i'd obviosuly have to analyse them under those parameters. I've basically picked out the re-occuring themes that run through the interviews and related them to the study as best i can.
DuffMan
DuffMan avatar

14389 posts since 21/2/07

7 Jan 2011 00:17
well you can and people do quantitively analyse interview data (nerds), I'd just trawl google with 'qualitative methods' and stuff like that if I was you.
ChrisAlright
ChrisAlright avatar

1467 posts since 29/6/08

7 Jan 2011 00:23
Nathan wrote:
exactlythat wrote: i was only talking about the academic q's w.r.t medicine, since nowadays questions are almost always about communication, empathy, the nhs etc with maybe why some medical research interests you.

cambridge are different to most med schools in that they put a lot of emphasis on academia (unlike others where its more a case of meet the grades and then its all about personality/ other skills), combine that with the costs of selecting and educating med students like you said they're not going to get rid of them.

im not saying medicine easy by any means. the article points out medical students as the brightest scientific minds of the country or something to that effect though.

you're right anyway. i made a generalisation that the best scientists wouldn't go for a vocational course where the scientific content is shares a lot biomed science degree (places like newcastle allow transfers between biomed and med students). just thought gaining skills for a job (that whilst having a scientific basis) is distracting if science is really what you're about. i'm wrong though cause that's more about what interests someone rather than their ability.

i stand by the fact that because med students have more work to do it doesn't necessarily mean they're more intelligent though.

My girlfriend is at Imperial studying Medicine and it is solid. The work is tough and the amount of work they get is disgusting. The communication aspect is only a small part of their course and is only really developed during the clinical year at hospital - the other years are focused heavily on learning a shit load of information and the learning curve is steep. The number of people with flawless academic records and 4 or 5 As at A Level who go on to fail a year is surprisingly high which goes to show how tough it is.

"the other years are focused heavily on learning a shit load of information and the learning curve is steep" - learning it off by heart, I agree.

flawless academic record does not equal good memory.

4 or 5 As at A Level is not hard, hence the introduction of A*s.
hdsy-
hdsy- avatar

3904 posts since 30/4/06

7 Jan 2011 01:45
this is what i use for analysing interview transcrripts. you can't do it in a rush though.

search google scholar for content analysis, template analysis or thematic analysis for more basic methods

if you want to get a good mark you'll need to think about the same methodological issues (sampling, reliability, validity and objectivity) as you would for a quantitative method. look here for a checklist.

*edit* also, medics aren't all that clever http://fliptomato.wordpress.com/2007/03/19/medical-researcher-discovers-integration-gets-75-citations/
unCouth
unCouth avatar

6883 posts since 3/11/07

7 Jan 2011 09:24
thanks hdsy
xos
xos avatar

1073 posts since 5/12/03

13 Jan 2011 23:25
anyone missed a uni exam due to sickness? flu etc?
hdsy-
hdsy- avatar

3904 posts since 30/4/06

13 Jan 2011 23:33
get a doctor's note and you should be allowed a first sitting during the next exam period
EDW
EDW avatar

2581 posts since 23/2/10

13 Jan 2011 23:35
not as of yet, man up or mitigate